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14 Feb 2020, 23:15

I did warn you

I'm a postie with many years in the job

we are being balloted yet again ( yes it feels like that sigh), my first point is, have the union got their s**t together this time? Personally I'm getting pretty fed up with delivering a yes vote only to see it overturned by RM lawyers - personally I need to know if I vote to go out on strike that it is legal - my worry is eventually RM will let us go out - then drop the bombshell that it is not legal and only allow us back in on inferior contracts ( am I paranoid maybe, but any experts out there could it happen?)

my next point, letter volumes are falling, we have all seen it day to day - so what do we do? We all want our jobs to continue and our pensions be safe - and at the end of the day this is all we really care about - yes we can bang drums and big up our union, but if things are bad what should we do? Do we strike in the hoe the union have made things legal this time?

My third point - so many people rely on overtime - is a strike really a realistic?

Let's face it all RM have to do is offer us a 3 year deal with a grand attached and telling us we could do a 5 day week ( despite the day we lose probably being Tuesday not Saturday) and the masses would lap it up and vote for it ( rightly or wrongly)

You will all tell me I'm wrong and the union can win this time - I don't think they can

You won't like this post - pontificate away

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15 Feb 2020, 00:19

The union f****d up last year and they've f****d up now because there is no point striking when the volumes are down and we're lapsing every day of the week. They'll have their agency workers in doing the packets and you'll have 2 days worth of mail when you go back the next day and they'll say you'll have time because we've got the lapsed covered today.

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15 Feb 2020, 00:22

Without going through your whole post mate i feel the same way my thoughts are to vote No because i have no faith in cwu locally or nationally.. personally think rm are 10 steps ahead of cwu.. just my thoughts

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15 Feb 2020, 01:00

This will also be an unpopular post....

I feel the exact same way. I feel deflated and worn out by all the ‘fight for our lives, solidarity, this time we mean business’ etc. I genuinely thought we’d be out in December, it felt like a golden chance, a once in a lifetime opportunity to once and for all sort things out. The union should’ve hired the best lawyer in the business to oversee that ballot, pay him his £1500 an hour or whatever it is and ensure it was all above board and legal. Instead no matter how you look at it, it was a failure.

Since then there have been no gate meetings, nothing from the union rep....it feels like I’m in a football team who’ve just gone into the changing room at halftime 10-0 down and someone in the distance (Terry on his Facebook videos) shouting at us telling us we can win this.

Sorry for the ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude but all I want now is to keep my job. I’m a fighter (hell, I’ve run a half marathon with a sprained ankle, sat with my mum through gruelling chemo sessions helping her beat cancer 3 times) but I don’t have the fight for this anymore. I no longer care if an extra 100 calls are put on my round, if I have to clock in, if every tracked parcel needs age verification, if I’m made to start half an hour later. I just want to come out of these worrying times with a job.

As a returning postman I strangley enough love the job more this time round (1st time it was still publicly owned ). And no I’m not one of the managers chosen ones, I’m a part time floater put on any round they ask with hardly any long weekends.

It’s just between me doing the job the first time and then coming back I’ve done some real crap jobs - customer services, cleaning up in pubs. So many saying this is an awful job perhaps have never done another line of work.

Despite the indoor chaos in the depot it’s overall still a good job. So long as I don’t have £2+ cut off my hourly rate or have to provide my own van then I’ll cope.

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15 Feb 2020, 01:11

Feduppostie

Everyone is allowed their own views. That's the point of this website. I don't agree with you for the reasons below.

The CWU is far from perfect but life without a strong union will not improve things.
The reason the strike was overturned was due to people taking out mail out of the fitting before it reached the home address. This led to an allegation that there was pressure to open and vote in the office. Sounds like the Employee Opinion Survey being locked in a room and forced to fill one out.

If the next strike is not legal then Royal Mail will have to inform us before we go out on strike. Therefore they cannot say that that is illegal and impose a inferior contract. The CWU would be sued 1st.

They are already trying to change our contracts via shift pattern changes, ie later start times or getting rid of 9 day fortnights, Wallingtons.

Letters are declining, however parcels are increasing. we all want a job and a good pension. Remember 18 months ago Royal Mail was going to change our pension for the third time and only the CWU stood up and said No to the original proposal Without the CWU making Royal Mail changing their plans we would be on a worse pension, including Managers. If we do nothing we are giving Royal Mail to do anything they want and be grateful for anything they decide to throw our way. Remember Rico was paid £6 million just to swap duties.

For the time being we are required to deliver to every address in the country 6 days a week. I don't now how easy that would be and remember all those voters who demand a delivery every day. Their local MP will do something about it or run the risk of losing votes.

If we get a strong yes vote it may be enough to avert a strike. The ones that rely on the overtime will end up losing the most, every duties axed will reduce the overtime opportunities.

The final point is that their are plenty of crap jobs out there, it may be the case that they didn't have a union to back them.

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15 Feb 2020, 01:17

HTPostman wrote:This will also be an unpopular post....

I feel the exact same way. I feel deflated and worn out by all the ‘fight for our lives, solidarity, this time we mean business’ etc. I genuinely thought we’d be out in December, it felt like a golden chance, a once in a lifetime opportunity to once and for all sort things out. The union should’ve hired the best lawyer in the business to oversee that ballot, pay him his £1500 an hour or whatever it is and ensure it was all above board and legal. Instead no matter how you look at it, it was a failure.

Since then there have been no gate meetings, nothing from the union rep....it feels like I’m in a football team who’ve just gone into the changing room at halftime 10-0 down and someone in the distance (Terry on his Facebook videos) shouting at us telling us we can win this.

Sorry for the ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude but all I want now is to keep my job. I’m a fighter (hell, I’ve run a half marathon with a sprained ankle, sat with my mum through gruelling chemo sessions helping her beat cancer 3 times) but I don’t have the fight for this anymore. I no longer care if an extra 100 calls are put on my round, if I have to clock in, if every tracked parcel needs age verification, if I’m made to start half an hour later. I just want to come out of these worrying times with a job.

As a returning postman I strangley enough love the job more this time round (1st time it was still publicly owned ). And no I’m not one of the managers chosen ones, I’m a part time floater put on any round they ask with hardly any long weekends.

It’s just between me doing the job the first time and then coming back I’ve done some real crap jobs - customer services, cleaning up in pubs. So many saying this is an awful job perhaps have never done another line of work.

Despite the indoor chaos in the depot it’s overall still a good job. So long as I don’t have £2+ cut off my hourly rate or have to provide my own van then I’ll cope.


I agree with everything you said and wonder how many more are beginning to feel this way then I think that if royal mail get it easy this time then they will just keep on taking. Its so frustrating that this worry and anguish we are feeling about job security is down to the greed of a few. At the end of the day I also think we will end up turning on each other if it means saving our own job at the expense of others. Sad but probably true :sad:

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15 Feb 2020, 06:15

It takes two seconds to tick the yes box and pop your voting form back in the envelope. Hardly exhausting to vote again to support the union who is defending your job.

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15 Feb 2020, 06:16

I can't support the unions blanket opposition to all and any job losses, especially via a reduction in the USO.

Mail volumes are dropping and it's now only a very small percentage of letters that are genuinely 'important' and time sensitive.

There is scope for the business to be 'streamlined' and for jobs to go via a reduction from 6 days to 5 days and I think the union should acknowledge and accept this fact and instead be using it's power to agree to the best possible VR terms for those who are willing to go whist ensuring that those who stay retain their current levels of pay and T&C's

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15 Feb 2020, 07:02

LouBarlow wrote:It takes two seconds to tick the yes box and pop your voting form back in the envelope. Hardly exhausting to vote again to support the union who is defending your job.

Also only takes 2 seconds to vote no.

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15 Feb 2020, 07:53

wacko74 wrote:I can't support the unions blanket opposition to all and any job losses, especially via a reduction in the USO.

Mail volumes are dropping and it's now only a very small percentage of letters that are genuinely 'important' and time sensitive.

There is scope for the business to be 'streamlined' and for jobs to go via a reduction from 6 days to 5 days and I think the union should acknowledge and accept this fact and instead be using it's power to agree to the best possible VR terms for those who are willing to go whist ensuring that those who stay retain their current levels of pay and T&C's

Packets will never fully go from 6 days down to 5, if anything I think a limited amount will go 7 day with a premium paid for Sunday delivery. There are already some couriers who deliver on Sundays

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15 Feb 2020, 08:02

SpacePhoenix wrote:
wacko74 wrote:I can't support the unions blanket opposition to all and any job losses, especially via a reduction in the USO.

Mail volumes are dropping and it's now only a very small percentage of letters that are genuinely 'important' and time sensitive.

There is scope for the business to be 'streamlined' and for jobs to go via a reduction from 6 days to 5 days and I think the union should acknowledge and accept this fact and instead be using it's power to agree to the best possible VR terms for those who are willing to go whist ensuring that those who stay retain their current levels of pay and T&C's

Packets will never fully go from 6 days down to 5, if anything I think a limited amount will go 7 day with a premium paid for Sunday delivery. There are already some couriers who deliver on Sundays


The USO doesn't cover pkts, but I agree it would make most commercial sense to start delivering pkts 7 days a week including evenings... so scope for more hours and jobs through that, whilst acknowledging and accepting the cost savings that can be made by letter deliveries being reduced to 5 days a week.

Yet the CWU still keeps banging on about the ''vital pubic service'' we provide by delivering letters 6 days a week.

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15 Feb 2020, 08:11

Like it or not one thing RM will eventually have to do is have barcodes on all packets. Every other courier tracks all parcels whilst in their network. I reckon if Tracked was made widely available, then the amount of SDs would drastically drop. I wonder how many people who send stuff SD would use Tracked instead if they have the chance

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15 Feb 2020, 09:07

The reason the strike was overturned was due to people taking out mail out of the fitting before it reached the home address. This led to an allegation that there was pressure to open and vote in the office. Sounds like the Employee Opinion Survey being locked in a room and forced to fill one out.

The reason it was overturned was the Union uploading this onto their Facebook account.
The still haven't full apologised to their members for this error; instead blaming the establishment.

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15 Feb 2020, 09:25

wacko74 wrote:I can't support the unions blanket opposition to all and any job losses, especially via a reduction in the USO.

Mail volumes are dropping and it's now only a very small percentage of letters that are genuinely 'important' and time sensitive.

There is scope for the business to be 'streamlined' and for jobs to go via a reduction from 6 days to 5 days and I think the union should acknowledge and accept this fact and instead be using it's power to agree to the best possible VR terms for those who are willing to go whist ensuring that those who stay retain their current levels of pay and T&C's


How can you accept a 5 day week, which day would you have off. If a customer is waiting for an important letter should we just tell them we will get it to you some time.
And the best way to strike is an overtime ban, not 1 day out & then back in to catch up & then 1 day out then back in & so it would continue. RM cannot cope without overtime, they can cope with 1 day out, also can you cope with losing a days pay each week, four days less pay each month at least, oh well maybe the bank will wait for the mortgage payment this month & next month......

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15 Feb 2020, 10:53

grchpo wrote:If a customer is waiting for an important letter should we just tell them we will get it to you some time.

Specials and packets will stay 6 days a week.

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15 Feb 2020, 11:06

Hitcher wrote:
grchpo wrote:If a customer is waiting for an important letter should we just tell them we will get it to you some time.

Specials and packets will stay 6 days a week.

A limited number of Tracked could go 7 days a week done by the LAT hubs

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15 Feb 2020, 11:19

feduppostie wrote:I did warn you

I'm a postie with many years in the job

we are being balloted yet again ( yes it feels like that sigh), my first point is, have the union got their s**t together this time? Personally I'm getting pretty fed up with delivering a yes vote only to see it overturned by RM lawyers - personally I need to know if I vote to go out on strike that it is legal - my worry is eventually RM will let us go out - then drop the bombshell that it is not legal and only allow us back in on inferior contracts ( am I paranoid maybe, but any experts out there could it happen?)


Rico has allegedly broken the unions in Europe when in charge of GLS so expect the same to happen here if true.

feduppostie wrote:my next point, letter volumes are falling, we have all seen it day to day - so what do we do? We all want our jobs to continue and our pensions be safe - and at the end of the day this is all we really care about - yes we can bang drums and big up our union, but if things are bad what should we do? Do we strike in the hoe the union have made things legal this time?


They are falling but if people don't start wising up and do the job properly, stop all this crap "I'm faster than you" bullshit to get finished early or show up a colleague then even more hours will be cut and more jobs will go. Those left will be left with workloads far beyond what they currently do.

There's no need to strike people need, for once, to think about their own actions and how it's just about killed off the job and could cost a lot of other people their jobs. Too much "I'm alright Jack" in this company.

feduppostie wrote:My third point - so many people rely on overtime - is a strike really a realistic?


If the job had been done correctly a lot more people would have ended up on F/T contracts

feduppostie wrote:Let's face it all RM have to do is offer us a 3 year deal with a grand attached and telling us we could do a 5 day week ( despite the day we lose probably being Tuesday not Saturday) and the masses would lap it up and vote for it ( rightly or wrongly)


It'll always be the same, we saw it with the managers pay offer, to many fall for the golden carrot and can't think the long game. Generally they're the ones who moan and slag the union off the most.

They'll never drop Tuesday's, not whilst businesses are getting letters and flats. It's not that hard to move Saturday's mail to a Tuesday once they've given customers enough notice that that's what's going to happen. Then it's just a case of when taking on new contracts they plan it into a rolling 5 day week. It would be bonkers to have people come in to work Monday then get the next day off to then work the next 4 days.

What I can see happening is a bigger separation of packets and letters over the next few years.

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15 Feb 2020, 11:21

Hmm, bend over and give management carte blanche to impose whatever detrimental changes they so desire or continue to support the union in the fight to defend our terms and conditions, its a tough choice :hmmmm

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15 Feb 2020, 11:30

None of us know what's going to happen .... we can all play "Project Fear" and scare the shite out of each other. I personally believe there's a lot of problems with mental health within the Business (despite RM's campaign to help out) ;liar . Everyone's Anxiety issues are not helped by all the rumours. :no no Yes I'm sure we'd all like to know what's "Really" going on but that's not the way Big Business works. I worked at a Business that was bought out.... nobody knew anything for sure until they gathered us all in warehouse and gave us 3 months notice! :shock: I'm hoping we never get to that point, but let's not stress too much over every little rumour.

If you're in two minds over what to vote.... Vote "YES" wait to see if there's even a need for IA (often the vote is just a negotiating tool) .... and if you then feel so strongly about it that you don't want to take IA then go into work. That's your choice... there's no check list to say, "You voted "YES" so you're not allowed in to work. I personally wouldn't do that, as it's against my principles, but it may help you out if your in doubts over the vote. :cuppa

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15 Feb 2020, 12:08

wdo1256 wrote:Feduppostie

Everyone is allowed their own views. That's the point of this website. I don't agree with you for the reasons below.

The CWU is far from perfect but life without a strong union will not improve things.
The reason the strike was overturned was due to people taking out mail out of the fitting before it reached the home address. This led to an allegation that there was pressure to open and vote in the office. Sounds like the Employee Opinion Survey being locked in a room and forced to fill one out.

If the next strike is not legal then Royal Mail will have to inform us before we go out on strike. Therefore they cannot say that that is illegal and impose a inferior contract. The CWU would be sued 1st.

They are already trying to change our contracts via shift pattern changes, ie later start times or getting rid of 9 day fortnights, Wallingtons.

Letters are declining, however parcels are increasing. we all want a job and a good pension. Remember 18 months ago Royal Mail was going to change our pension for the third time and only the CWU stood up and said No to the original proposal Without the CWU making Royal Mail changing their plans we would be on a worse pension, including Managers. If we do nothing we are giving Royal Mail to do anything they want and be grateful for anything they decide to throw our way. Remember Rico was paid £6 million just to swap duties.

For the time being we are required to deliver to every address in the country 6 days a week. I don't now how easy that would be and remember all those voters who demand a delivery every day. Their local MP will do something about it or run the risk of losing votes.

If we get a strong yes vote it may be enough to avert a strike. The ones that rely on the overtime will end up losing the most, every duties axed will reduce the overtime opportunities.

The final point is that their are plenty of crap jobs out there, it may be the case that they didn't have a union to back them.

My thoughts exactly, back your union , failing to do so will leave us in an even worse situation.

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