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LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

19 Oct 2019, 08:59

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

No. 608/19

18th October 2019

Dear Colleagues,

2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

Further to LTB 599/19, please find attached further material that we would ask you to circulate which provides clarity around the timescales following the conclusion of the external mediation. We also believe that this information will enable our members to anticipate all potential events and organise themselves accordingly.

We would encourage every unit to share the attached poster as widely as possible and ensure that it is displayed on notice boards, handed out at Gate meetings and circulated on social media.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your ongoing support and for the work you are undertaking to ensure that we reach a successful conclusion to this dispute.

Any enquiries in relation to the content of this LTB should be addressed to the DGS(P) Department.

Yours sincerely,

Terry Pullinger
Deputy General Secretary (Postal)

LTB 608.19 Attachment 1 https://emails.cwu.org/t/d-l-xtisuy-jtfltzjh-i/

View Online https://emails.cwu.org/t/d-l-xtisuy-jtfltzjh-d/

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 12:38

Anyone else think we have screwed this up again with timings? - we should have already had a few strike days to show intent. Looks like any action will not take place until near the end of November with still no dates even pencilled in afaik. Myself and many colleagues would also like info on if there may be OT bans during Industrial Action period or will managers be expecting us to clear everything on days after strike ? - Can see many of us not leaving the office until 1030 - 1100 if this is the case and not completing until 430 and gone... and for anyone who is about to give smart answers ' work to your time ' - that's fine but we need total union support with this especially when we have absorption and double absorsption going on until late November like last year. Most years we have people close to physical fights over xmas due to pressue and this year is going to be mental. Hope union can come up with clarity and define exactly what will be expected nationaly and stick to these and support members.

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 13:20

JKSmudge wrote:Anyone else think we have screwed this up again with timings? - we should have already had a few strike days to show intent. Looks like any action will not take place until near the end of November with still no dates even pencilled in afaik.


Did you not read the Dispute Update in the link of the previous post?

• The External Mediation has concluded and the report is due today.
• There will be one week for consideration of the mediator’s report.
• Then two weeks for a final opportunity to reach an agreement.
• If no agreement is reached then each party can notify each other of their intentions and be out of the procedure.
• If we have no agreement we will then have to give two weeks notice of our intention to take industrial action.
• Members should now prepare for all eventualities in regard to those timescales, and certainly the very real potential that
meaningful and strong industrial action will take place.

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 15:33

rogersh wrote:
JKSmudge wrote:Anyone else think we have screwed this up again with timings? - we should have already had a few strike days to show intent. Looks like any action will not take place until near the end of November with still no dates even pencilled in afaik.


Did you not read the Dispute Update in the link of the previous post?

• The External Mediation has concluded and the report is due today.
• There will be one week for consideration of the mediator’s report.
• Then two weeks for a final opportunity to reach an agreement.
• If no agreement is reached then each party can notify each other of their intentions and be out of the procedure.
• If we have no agreement we will then have to give two weeks notice of our intention to take industrial action.
• Members should now prepare for all eventualities in regard to those timescales, and certainly the very real potential that
meaningful and strong industrial action will take place.


....so end of November like I said.

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 15:54

JKSmudge wrote:
rogersh wrote:
JKSmudge wrote:Anyone else think we have screwed this up again with timings? -we should have already had a few strike days to show intent. Looks like any action will not take place until near the end of November w ith still no dates even pencilled in afaik.


Did you not read the Dispute Update in the link of the previous post?

• The External Mediation has concluded and the report is due today.
• There will be one week for consideration of the mediator’s report.
• Then two weeks for a final opportunity to reach an agreement.
• If no agreement is reached then each party can notify each other of their intentions and be out of the procedure.
• If we have no agreement we will then have to give two weeks notice of our intention to take industrial action.
• Members should now prepare for all eventualities in regard to those timescales, and certainly the very real potential that
meaningful and strong industrial action will take place.


....so end of November like I said.


You also said "we should have already had a few strike days to show intent." The information contained in the LTB indicated why this could not happen at present.
Information on the timetable was Posted by Martin Walsh » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:01 pm

The Mediation process takes 7 weeks and it starting on Tuesday when the CWU presented the Independent mediator Roy Lewis with our submission.

Our submission covers a number of demands over the issue of the dispute ranging from extending our legal guarantees, agreeing a different parcel pipeline , supporting and extending the USO , resolving the culture issues , ensuring the digital technology being used for resourcing and the achievement of the hour off the working week.

The earliest there can be strike action is 20th November just in time for Black Friday and cyber Monday.

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 17:53

The information contained in the LTB indicated why this could not happen at present


It could have, had we started the dispute process earlier so his question stands.

Have we screwed up the timing of this dispute?
In my experience of quite a few strikes we tend to be out at the gate mid October, this allows us to give them a hard kick up the arse, agree to some meaningful talks and still have the option to go back out before Christmas.

To me this looks like betting it all on one throw of the dice. If we go out at the end of November it'll be a one shot game and they'll know it....unless we stay out.

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 18:50

My initial response t JKSmudge was to respond to answer his post, mainly his statement "we should have already had a few strike days to show intent". (However I included the whole paragraph in JKSmudge wrote).
If you want to respond his question which states "Anyone else think we have screwed this up again with timings? " , then fine, but my response did not refer to that question.

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 21:19

JKSmudge wrote:Anyone else think we have screwed this up again with timings? - we should have already had a few strike days to show intent. Looks like any action will not take place until near the end of November with still no dates even pencilled in afaik. Myself and many colleagues would also like info on if there may be OT bans during Industrial Action period or will managers be expecting us to clear everything on days after strike ? - Can see many of us not leaving the office until 1030 - 1100 if this is the case and not completing until 430 and gone... and for anyone who is about to give smart answers ' work to your time ' - that's fine but we need total union support with this especially when we have absorption and double absorsption going on until late November like last year. Most years we have people close to physical fights over xmas due to pressue and this year is going to be mental. Hope union can come up with clarity and define exactly what will be expected nationaly and stick to these and support members.

:thumbup Just start work/finish work on time FROM NOW, as you should be doing already. The Data capture will inevitably show the USO is extant and THAT IT IS IN FACT the culture THAT needs reviewing. Just do it and stop worrying 'bout THE what ifs/maybe/potential...you are now in the hands of your own fate, so just play the game and work properly from here on ever after. :wave

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

20 Oct 2019, 21:45

Woody Guthrie wrote:
The information contained in the LTB indicated why this could not happen at present


It could have, had we started the dispute process earlier so his question stands.

Have we screwed up the timing of this dispute?
In my experience of quite a few strikes we tend to be out at the gate mid October, this allows us to give them a hard kick up the arse, agree to some meaningful talks and still have the option to go back out before Christmas.

To me this looks like betting it all on one throw of the dice. If we go out at the end of November it'll be a one shot game and they'll know it....unless we stay out.


Yep - That is exactly my point. glad someone understood me :)

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

21 Oct 2019, 00:08

Earliest can strike is 20th Nov from what i read on the mail received.

In my opinion these talks / process / mediation should have started earlier so the first potential strike days would have been early / mid Oct. A strike is a last resort tool, not something we should encourage.

Again in my opinion we could have had a longer negotiating time frame if the ballot results had come earlier and showed the RMG chieftains that we are deeply annoyed with their plans.

Seems a bit congested to me.

Atleast this time the process has been followed so we can go on strike. Lets hope a lasting agreement can be sorted before it hits the fans.

LTB 608/19 - 2019 Dispute Relating to Honouring & Deploying the Four Pillars of Security & Pay/Guiding Principles National Agreement Between the CWU & RMG

21 Oct 2019, 08:22

work wrote:
JKSmudge wrote:Anyone else think we have screwed this up again with timings? - we should have already had a few strike days to show intent. Looks like any action will not take place until near the end of November with still no dates even pencilled in afaik. Myself and many colleagues would also like info on if there may be OT bans during Industrial Action period or will managers be expecting us to clear everything on days after strike ? - Can see many of us not leaving the office until 1030 - 1100 if this is the case and not completing until 430 and gone... and for anyone who is about to give smart answers ' work to your time ' - that's fine but we need total union support with this especially when we have absorption and double absorsption going on until late November like last year. Most years we have people close to physical fights over xmas due to pressue and this year is going to be mental. Hope union can come up with clarity and define exactly what will be expected nationaly and stick to these and support members.

:thumbup Just start work/finish work on time FROM NOW, as you should be doing already. The Data capture will inevitably show the USO is extant and THAT IT IS IN FACT the culture THAT needs reviewing. Just do it and stop worrying 'bout THE what ifs/maybe/potential...you are now in the hands of your own fate, so just play the game and work properly from here on ever after. :wave


Work- spot on when you say "stop worrying about the ifs/maybe/potential". The fact is we are where we are & the current timetable of the process has been known since mediation was requested by the CWU & the timescale was reiterated in the LTB.

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