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Likely outcomes?

14 Oct 2019, 21:49

If tomorrow 15th October 2019 at 15.30 our union announce a massive yes vote of between 90-95% with a equally massive turnout then what do reps (and members) think will happen (no smug "we will go on strike answers" please.

I personally believe strike action is inevitable this time.
The one big problem I can foresee and this sadly relates to the behaviour of certain members generally that exasperates me on a daily basis as a H&S rep is that some members just do not see the brevity and seriousness of the situation.

I have already discussed this with members and while they are happy to pop an X in a box and post for free; when it comes to the crunch and say we have our first day of action on black Friday, they will not walk out as they will only see the loss of a days pay which to some members is 10-12 hours of pay.

quotes I have had (slightly paraphrased to protect their privacy)

" What's the point, we just did this 2 years ago and we are in a worse position now "

" Not sure yet but probably won't "

" I have fxxxxxg 4 kids to feed and a mortgage to pay, I can't afford to go on strike "

etc...….

It's like as a rep when I say "wear your seatbelt; wear your hi vis; don't rush; don't read and walk. And the answer is always the same " well, i'd never get my job done if I didn't "

I fear for the outcome of this dispute on account of 2 things:

1. A fair few OPG's I work with are myopic to the point of almost total blindness.
2. Our office is becoming flooded with PT runners who do an unprofessional job and management cover up their mistakes whilst giving out 2 year serious and sackings to professional full timers for far lesser offences.

I only hope my office is not representative of the country.

I BELIEVE GREENBACK IS BETTING ON THE MEMBERS NOT PUTTING THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS AND WILL WEAR THE STRIKERS DOWN WHILST BRINGING IN CHEAP CASUALS

i HOPE TO GOD HE IS WRONG AND HE WILL FAIL MISERABLY AND THE UNION WILL TRIUMPH

Likely outcomes?

15 Oct 2019, 07:40

Not to turn this into another FT vs PT thread but I don’t think any set of workers are squeaky clean.

I am PT but do a lot of overtime.

Last Saturday, I came in at the start time. There are around 20 frames in my area, I’m the only PT. Everyone was already at their frame and had at least the mech
thrown in already.

I’ve done park and loops with PT staff, first thing they do when they get in the van is clip the seatbelt behind them.

I’ve been trained on a rural by a FT colleague, as we approached a farm he said ‘just sign for any specials, they tip me £100 at Christmas and they won’t ever complain.’

My point being if the strike action fails it’s going to be a variety of things, from the PT runners to the FT who come in an hour early so they can finish an hour early (and are allowed to).

But to answer your question on likely outcome, I’m not convinced many where I work will go through with strike action. I think the CWU have done a good job getting us to vote yes but we just need a bit of joined up thinking as a lot of members aren’t exactly sure why we propose to strike.

Likewise when it hits the media they’ll give out mixed messages, then the public assume we are just striking for money etc.

This to me is where the CWU should focus on; things like 4 pillars and SSW mean nothing to the man in the street (and to a lot of my colleagues too!). So the union should focus on:

-The threat to turn this into a gig economy/zero hours
-Failing to pay holiday pay. How many millions are owed to us?
-Racism and bullying.
-Virtually impossible to book any days off outside of your annual leave.
-A threat to delivering letters - I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, how will the NHS cope if RM went under and the likes of Fedex, DPD etc charge £5+ to deliver appointment letters instead of the approx 50p we are charging. Same applies to council tax letters, Christmas cards, bank statements (often required for car finance, getting credit etc), tickets to gigs/sports. Do we still deliver passports?

Those are all more straightforward and easy to understand.

Likely outcomes?

15 Oct 2019, 16:08

HTPostman wrote:This to me is where the CWU should focus on; things like 4 pillars and SSW mean nothing to the man in the street (and to a lot of my colleagues too!). So the union should focus on:

-The threat to turn this into a gig economy/zero hours
-Failing to pay holiday pay. How many millions are owed to us?
-Racism and bullying.
-Virtually impossible to book any days off outside of your annual leave.
-A threat to delivering letters - I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, how will the NHS cope if RM went under and the likes of Fedex, DPD etc charge £5+ to deliver appointment letters instead of the approx 50p we are charging. Same applies to council tax letters, Christmas cards, bank statements (often required for car finance, getting credit etc), tickets to gigs/sports. Do we still deliver passports?

Those are all more straightforward and easy to understand.


Like HTPostman said this is what needs to be presented to the public. Something they can understand and relate to. As well as reducing the poor postal works rights and taking money out of the company to pay excessive bonues and shareholders.

Even I dont know the 4 Pillars is about but im sure its good.

Likely outcomes?

15 Oct 2019, 16:32

HTPostman wrote:Not to turn this into another FT vs PT thread but I don’t think any set of workers are squeaky clean.

I am PT but do a lot of overtime.

Last Saturday, I came in at the start time. There are around 20 frames in my area, I’m the only PT. Everyone was already at their frame and had at least the mech
thrown in already.

I’ve done park and loops with PT staff, first thing they do when they get in the van is clip the seatbelt behind them.

I’ve been trained on a rural by a FT colleague, as we approached a farm he said ‘just sign for any specials, they tip me £100 at Christmas and they won’t ever complain.’

My point being if the strike action fails it’s going to be a variety of things, from the PT runners to the FT who come in an hour early so they can finish an hour early (and are allowed to).

But to answer your question on likely outcome, I’m not convinced many where I work will go through with strike action. I think the CWU have done a good job getting us to vote yes but we just need a bit of joined up thinking as a lot of members aren’t exactly sure why we propose to strike.

Likewise when it hits the media they’ll give out mixed messages, then the public assume we are just striking for money etc.

This to me is where the CWU should focus on; things like 4 pillars and SSW mean nothing to the man in the street (and to a lot of my colleagues too!). So the union should focus on:

-The threat to turn this into a gig economy/zero hours
-Failing to pay holiday pay. How many millions are owed to us?
-Racism and bullying.
-Virtually impossible to book any days off outside of your annual leave.
-A threat to delivering letters - I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, how will the NHS cope if RM went under and the likes of Fedex, DPD etc charge £5+ to deliver appointment letters instead of the approx 50p we are charging. Same applies to council tax letters, Christmas cards, bank statements (often required for car finance, getting credit etc), tickets to gigs/sports. Do we still deliver passports?

Those are all more straightforward and easy to understand.

My greatest fear is that the CWU manage to renegotiate the four pillars and secure the SWW then let everything else go ahead and say it's alright and we have secured a massive victory. B&H is far worse or at least much more visible since the four pillars agreement came to be and the SWW is largely seen as a pay rise. We need to forget about the past agreements and fight the future as Rico Black foresees it.
Very difficult if not nigh on impossible to get posties to follow the basic rules of delivery. The only time this happens in our DO is when RM threatens us with taking walks out of the office. Then it becomes apparent that the walks cannot be completed in duty time and RM start accusing us of 'work to rule'.
It won't be possible for RM to negotiate themselves out of the letters side of the business when the USO comes up for discussion. You don't need to worry about that. The worry is the new parcel strategy and current delivery staff being left with just the letters & small packets to deliver.

Likely outcomes?

15 Oct 2019, 17:22

[quote="Route1"

Even I dont know the 4 Pillars is about but im sure its good.

Have a read on this link ;
https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... ow-res.pdf
Last edited by rogersh on 16 Oct 2019, 07:59, edited 2 times in total.

Likely outcomes?

15 Oct 2019, 18:24

HTPostman wrote:Not to turn this into another FT vs PT thread but I don’t think any set of workers are squeaky clean.

I am PT but do a lot of overtime.

Last Saturday, I came in at the start time. There are around 20 frames in my area, I’m the only PT. Everyone was already at their frame and had at least the mech
thrown in already.

I’ve done park and loops with PT staff, first thing they do when they get in the van is clip the seatbelt behind them.

I’ve been trained on a rural by a FT colleague, as we approached a farm he said ‘just sign for any specials, they tip me £100 at Christmas and they won’t ever complain.’

My point being if the strike action fails it’s going to be a variety of things, from the PT runners to the FT who come in an hour early so they can finish an hour early (and are allowed to).

But to answer your question on likely outcome, I’m not convinced many where I work will go through with strike action. I think the CWU have done a good job getting us to vote yes but we just need a bit of joined up thinking as a lot of members aren’t exactly sure why we propose to strike.

Likewise when it hits the media they’ll give out mixed messages, then the public assume we are just striking for money etc.

This to me is where the CWU should focus on; things like 4 pillars and SSW mean nothing to the man in the street (and to a lot of my colleagues too!). So the union should focus on:

-The threat to turn this into a gig economy/zero hours
-Failing to pay holiday pay. How many millions are owed to us?
-Racism and bullying.
-Virtually impossible to book any days off outside of your annual leave.
-A threat to delivering letters - I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, how will the NHS cope if RM went under and the likes of Fedex, DPD etc charge £5+ to deliver appointment letters instead of the approx 50p we are charging. Same applies to council tax letters, Christmas cards, bank statements (often required for car finance, getting credit etc), tickets to gigs/sports. Do we still deliver passports?

Those are all more straightforward and easy to understand.



Good post. The lazy journalists will just pick up on the usual easy pickings and make out that we’re moaning about pay and having to work 38 hours etc etc. The CWU have the upper hand at the mo and need to hit the media and public early with the pure and basic facts. They also need to discredit the board and particularly Rico Fat with the hard honest facts of his golden hello, his past tactics with GLS and the fact he commutes in by jet from his home in Switzerland etc etc. The public have a real hate of fat cats and the union really needs to play on that.

Likely outcomes?

15 Oct 2019, 20:14

HTPostman wrote:Not to turn this into another FT vs PT thread but I don’t think any set of workers are squeaky clean.

I am PT but do a lot of overtime.

Last Saturday, I came in at the start time. There are around 20 frames in my area, I’m the only PT. Everyone was already at their frame and had at least the mech
thrown in already.

I’ve done park and loops with PT staff, first thing they do when they get in the van is clip the seatbelt behind them.

I’ve been trained on a rural by a FT colleague, as we approached a farm he said ‘just sign for any specials, they tip me £100 at Christmas and they won’t ever complain.’

My point being if the strike action fails it’s going to be a variety of things, from the PT runners to the FT who come in an hour early so they can finish an hour early (and are allowed to).

But to answer your question on likely outcome, I’m not convinced many where I work will go through with strike action. I think the CWU have done a good job getting us to vote yes but we just need a bit of joined up thinking as a lot of members aren’t exactly sure why we propose to strike.

Likewise when it hits the media they’ll give out mixed messages, then the public assume we are just striking for money etc.

This to me is where the CWU should focus on; things like 4 pillars and SSW mean nothing to the man in the street (and to a lot of my colleagues too!). So the union should focus on:

-The threat to turn this into a gig economy/zero hours
-Failing to pay holiday pay. How many millions are owed to us?
-Racism and bullying.
-Virtually impossible to book any days off outside of your annual leave.
-A threat to delivering letters - I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, how will the NHS cope if RM went under and the likes of Fedex, DPD etc charge £5+ to deliver appointment letters instead of the approx 50p we are charging. Same applies to council tax letters, Christmas cards, bank statements (often required for car finance, getting credit etc), tickets to gigs/sports. Do we still deliver passports?

Those are all more straightforward and easy to understand.


Yes, great post and I think you misunderstood me a bit or I worded it badly.
Divide and rule is RM's strategy and certainly not one I subscribe to; in fact it makes my blood boil tbh.
Rural vs town; PT vs FT; indoor vs outdoor staff AHHH!!
The problem in our office is that the Pegasus system used for our revision came out massively in favor of Rurals as it factored in seatbelt wearing/ turning the engine off at each stop etc and yes I have been trained on rurals where the postie has said and I quote " their all good as gold; you can sign for anything and leave anything as its quite safe around here " When it came to a special at a particular address on my side of the door I flatly refused and the trainer started moaning about it effecting their xmas tips so I totally see where your coming from.

Likely outcomes?

16 Oct 2019, 18:55

No idea but I hope the company heads the message and sits down with the union and an agreement is reached. I have my doubts about the effectiveness of actual strike action but voted yes to send a message.

Likely outcomes?

16 Oct 2019, 19:37

[quote="Seymour Buts"]No idea but I hope the company heads the message and sits down with the union and an agreement is reached. I have my doubts about the effectiveness of actual strike action but voted yes to send a message

Yep I think that is exactly want the sensible normal ones amongst us want. Can’t understand these dickheads who think it’s just a great wheeze to be on the gate. It’s a worrying situation not a laugh!!!

I also have doubts over strike action - 25% of union members didn’t vote so can’t be relied on, a few thousand more of the workforce aren’t in the union plus there’s already people saying they won’t be striking. It’s gonna be difficult maintaining the numbers especially with Christmas coming up.

Likely outcomes?

16 Oct 2019, 20:19

GRS wrote:
Seymour Buts wrote:No idea but I hope the company heads the message and sits down with the union and an agreement is reached. I have my doubts about the effectiveness of actual strike action but voted yes to send a message

Yep I think that is exactly want the sensible normal ones amongst us want. Can’t understand these dickheads who think it’s just a great wheeze to be on the gate. It’s a worrying situation not a laugh!!!

I also have doubts over strike action - 25% of union members didn’t vote so can’t be relied on, a few thousand more of the workforce aren’t in the union plus there’s already people saying they won’t be striking. It’s gonna be difficult maintaining the numbers especially with Christmas coming up.


I fear the union is determined to make a point this time. The best trade unions know there's a line you can push it to. Royal Mail are breaking agreements and need to be brought into line; that is it though. This isn't a war. My concern first and foremost is talk of seperate companies, then the seperation of oversized. We need parcels to make the mail viable; that is where the growth is and where the money is. The stuff about a shorter working week is secondary to me. It's a good idea for WHEN machines start taking jobs, that hasn't happened though. It's unreasonable of the union to expect a shorter working week when the workload is growing and not being absorbed by automation.

Likely outcomes?

16 Oct 2019, 21:32

lambert246 wrote:If tomorrow 15th October 2019 at 15.30 our union announce a massive yes vote of between 90-95% with a equally massive turnout then what do reps (and members) think will happen (no smug "we will go on strike answers" please.

I personally believe strike action is inevitable this time.
The one big problem I can foresee and this sadly relates to the behaviour of certain members generally that exasperates me on a daily basis as a H&S rep is that some members just do not see the brevity and seriousness of the situation.

I have already discussed this with members and while they are happy to pop an X in a box and post for free; when it comes to the crunch and say we have our first day of action on black Friday, they will not walk out as they will only see the loss of a days pay which to some members is 10-12 hours of pay.

quotes I have had (slightly paraphrased to protect their privacy)

" What's the point, we just did this 2 years ago and we are in a worse position now "

" Not sure yet but probably won't "

" I have fxxxxxg 4 kids to feed and a mortgage to pay, I can't afford to go on strike "

etc...….

It's like as a rep when I say "wear your seatbelt; wear your hi vis; don't rush; don't read and walk. And the answer is always the same " well, i'd never get my job done if I didn't "

I fear for the outcome of this dispute on account of 2 things:

1. A fair few OPG's I work with are myopic to the point of almost total blindness.
2. Our office is becoming flooded with PT runners who do an unprofessional job and management cover up their mistakes whilst giving out 2 year serious and sackings to professional full timers for far lesser offences.

I only hope my office is not representative of the country.

I BELIEVE GREENBACK IS BETTING ON THE MEMBERS NOT PUTTING THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS AND WILL WEAR THE STRIKERS DOWN WHILST BRINGING IN CHEAP CASUALS

i HOPE TO GOD HE IS WRONG AND HE WILL FAIL MISERABLY AND THE UNION WILL TRIUMPH

:pray :pray :pray THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...solidarity is strength...the panic is ongoing now as the management get 1% and £1000 bonus from UNITE (on the same day as the cwu ballot result!). Buying 'em 'onboard'. sold out for a few pieces of silver...UNITE you are dogshit on my shoe :coolr

Likely outcomes?

17 Oct 2019, 21:02

lambert246 wrote:
HTPostman wrote:Not to turn this into another FT vs PT thread but I don’t think any set of workers are squeaky clean.

I am PT but do a lot of overtime.

Last Saturday, I came in at the start time. There are around 20 frames in my area, I’m the only PT. Everyone was already at their frame and had at least the mech
thrown in already.

I’ve done park and loops with PT staff, first thing they do when they get in the van is clip the seatbelt behind them.

I’ve been trained on a rural by a FT colleague, as we approached a farm he said ‘just sign for any specials, they tip me £100 at Christmas and they won’t ever complain.’

My point being if the strike action fails it’s going to be a variety of things, from the PT runners to the FT who come in an hour early so they can finish an hour early (and are allowed to).

But to answer your question on likely outcome, I’m not convinced many where I work will go through with strike action. I think the CWU have done a good job getting us to vote yes but we just need a bit of joined up thinking as a lot of members aren’t exactly sure why we propose to strike.

Likewise when it hits the media they’ll give out mixed messages, then the public assume we are just striking for money etc.

This to me is where the CWU should focus on; things like 4 pillars and SSW mean nothing to the man in the street (and to a lot of my colleagues too!). So the union should focus on:

-The threat to turn this into a gig economy/zero hours
-Failing to pay holiday pay. How many millions are owed to us?
-Racism and bullying.
-Virtually impossible to book any days off outside of your annual leave.
-A threat to delivering letters - I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, how will the NHS cope if RM went under and the likes of Fedex, DPD etc charge £5+ to deliver appointment letters instead of the approx 50p we are charging. Same applies to council tax letters, Christmas cards, bank statements (often required for car finance, getting credit etc), tickets to gigs/sports. Do we still deliver passports?

Those are all more straightforward and easy to understand.


Yes, great post and I think you misunderstood me a bit or I worded it badly.
Divide and rule is RM's strategy and certainly not one I subscribe to; in fact it makes my blood boil tbh.
Rural vs town; PT vs FT; indoor vs outdoor staff AHHH!!
The problem in our office is that the Pegasus system used for our revision came out massively in favor of Rurals as it factored in seatbelt wearing/ turning the engine off at each stop etc and yes I have been trained on rurals where the postie has said and I quote " their all good as gold; you can sign for anything and leave anything as its quite safe around here " When it came to a special at a particular address on my side of the door I flatly refused and the trainer started moaning about it effecting their xmas tips so I totally see where your coming from.

Xmas tips ain't gonna save em if they get the sack coz some other courier has nicked the special left in the porch.

Likely outcomes?

17 Oct 2019, 21:05

work wrote:
lambert246 wrote:If tomorrow 15th October 2019 at 15.30 our union announce a massive yes vote of between 90-95% with a equally massive turnout then what do reps (and members) think will happen (no smug "we will go on strike answers" please.

I personally believe strike action is inevitable this time.
The one big problem I can foresee and this sadly relates to the behaviour of certain members generally that exasperates me on a daily basis as a H&S rep is that some members just do not see the brevity and seriousness of the situation.

I have already discussed this with members and while they are happy to pop an X in a box and post for free; when it comes to the crunch and say we have our first day of action on black Friday, they will not walk out as they will only see the loss of a days pay which to some members is 10-12 hours of pay.

quotes I have had (slightly paraphrased to protect their privacy)

" What's the point, we just did this 2 years ago and we are in a worse position now "

" Not sure yet but probably won't "

" I have fxxxxxg 4 kids to feed and a mortgage to pay, I can't afford to go on strike "

etc...….

It's like as a rep when I say "wear your seatbelt; wear your hi vis; don't rush; don't read and walk. And the answer is always the same " well, i'd never get my job done if I didn't "

I fear for the outcome of this dispute on account of 2 things:

1. A fair few OPG's I work with are myopic to the point of almost total blindness.
2. Our office is becoming flooded with PT runners who do an unprofessional job and management cover up their mistakes whilst giving out 2 year serious and sackings to professional full timers for far lesser offences.

I only hope my office is not representative of the country.

I BELIEVE GREENBACK IS BETTING ON THE MEMBERS NOT PUTTING THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS AND WILL WEAR THE STRIKERS DOWN WHILST BRINGING IN CHEAP CASUALS

i HOPE TO GOD HE IS WRONG AND HE WILL FAIL MISERABLY AND THE UNION WILL TRIUMPH

:pray :pray :pray THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...solidarity is strength...the panic is ongoing now as the management get 1% and £1000 bonus from UNITE (on the same day as the cwu ballot result!). Buying 'em 'onboard'. sold out for a few pieces of silver...UNITE you are dogshit on my shoe :coolr

How about replacing the word unite with CWU ,coz unite got them a deal and CWU hasn't managed to get us one.

Likely outcomes?

17 Oct 2019, 21:24

rambo1 wrote:
work wrote:
lambert246 wrote:If tomorrow 15th October 2019 at 15.30 our union announce a massive yes vote of between 90-95% with a equally massive turnout then what do reps (and members) think will happen (no smug "we will go on strike answers" please.

I personally believe strike action is inevitable this time.
The one big problem I can foresee and this sadly relates to the behaviour of certain members generally that exasperates me on a daily basis as a H&S rep is that some members just do not see the brevity and seriousness of the situation.

I have already discussed this with members and while they are happy to pop an X in a box and post for free; when it comes to the crunch and say we have our first day of action on black Friday, they will not walk out as they will only see the loss of a days pay which to some members is 10-12 hours of pay.

quotes I have had (slightly paraphrased to protect their privacy)

" What's the point, we just did this 2 years ago and we are in a worse position now "

" Not sure yet but probably won't "

" I have fxxxxxg 4 kids to feed and a mortgage to pay, I can't afford to go on strike "

etc...….

It's like as a rep when I say "wear your seatbelt; wear your hi vis; don't rush; don't read and walk. And the answer is always the same " well, i'd never get my job done if I didn't "

I fear for the outcome of this dispute on account of 2 things:

1. A fair few OPG's I work with are myopic to the point of almost total blindness.
2. Our office is becoming flooded with PT runners who do an unprofessional job and management cover up their mistakes whilst giving out 2 year serious and sackings to professional full timers for far lesser offences.

I only hope my office is not representative of the country.

I BELIEVE GREENBACK IS BETTING ON THE MEMBERS NOT PUTTING THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS AND WILL WEAR THE STRIKERS DOWN WHILST BRINGING IN CHEAP CASUALS

i HOPE TO GOD HE IS WRONG AND HE WILL FAIL MISERABLY AND THE UNION WILL TRIUMPH

:pray :pray :pray THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...solidarity is strength...the panic is ongoing now as the management get 1% and £1000 bonus from UNITE (on the same day as the cwu ballot result!). Buying 'em 'onboard'. sold out for a few pieces of silver...UNITE you are dogshit on my shoe :coolr

How about replacing the word unite with CWU ,coz unite got them a deal and CWU hasn't managed to get us one.


The deal achieved by Unite appears to be as a consequence of the CWU stance. IMO you cannot compare an exclusive pay deal with the complex issues the CWU are mediating, pre & post the membership vote, to retain the deal the CWU negotiated in 2018.

The RM/Unite deal;
Royal Mail said it had reached a negotiated agreement with Unite on a two-year pay deal for junior and middle-managers.

Under the proposals, managers will receive a pay increase of 2.6% this year, backdated to September 1, and a pay increase of 2.7% from September 1, 2020.

Over two years, this means a pay increase of 5.37%. Managers will also receive a £1,000 bonus advance in December 2019.

A ballot on the offer will now be held, said Royal Mail.

Likely outcomes?

17 Oct 2019, 23:10

I don't know any details but from what I understand the managers are not happy about something and the pay rise/bribe may not make them vote for the offer Unite negotiated for them.

Likely outcomes?

20 Oct 2019, 00:20

Have managers ever gone on strike before? Would our offices close if they did walk out? Weird one. It's not our dispute, so I guess we'd just work as normal without management.

Likely outcomes?

20 Oct 2019, 00:26

Seymour Buts wrote:Have managers ever gone on strike before? Would our offices close if they did walk out? Weird one. It's not our dispute, so I guess we'd just work as normal without management.

We don't really need DOMs to do our jobs unless there are staffing issues or shortages. If you don't have a decent DOM your office will generally run better if they are not present.

Likely outcomes?

20 Oct 2019, 00:57

Tend to agree. I'd suggest quite a few might 'forget' their lapsing mind haha.

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