wandle wrote:I hope the CWU’s lawyers asked whether Royal Mail would have made their challenge to the result if those people who had filmed themselves, and posted clips on social media, has been voting ‘no’ ???
You can bloody bet they wouldn’t have, even though such actions would have been a similar breach...
Good point wandle. What would happen if in the next ballot just one member deliberately posted a video of themself taking their ballot paper from the frame & completing it in the workplace.
Would that be enough evidence for the same high court proceedings?
You're both completely missing the point.
The judges didn't rule against the union because members opened their ballot papers at work or because they posted it online.
They ruled against the union because the union actively encouraged members to do it.
Is that why the judges only took two minutes reach their verdict.
The judge said the CWU were not intentionally unlawful.
Neither of those points change the fact that the ruling went against the union because it actively encouraged members to open their ballot papers in the office and post evidence of that online.
Opening your ballot paper is not unlawful, posting it online is not unlawful, a union encouraging members to do so is unlawful.
Not meaning to break the law is the weakest of defences.
Try it if you're ever up in front of a judge.
The danger in misunderstanding this ruling and blaming the wrong people (either members or the 'establishment') is that we fail to learn from our mistakes.
This is not a stitch up or a case of the judiciary closing ranks with big business it is a very basic amateurish mistake by the communications department of the CWU. The law on workplace ballots is very simple, ballot papers are sent to members home addresses where they can vote in secret free from real and perceived influence or intimidation from their peers. Anything that interferes with that process is automatically unlawful.
A first year law student would have known that this strategy was likely to be challenged so the question is was the legal advice the CWU received shockingly bad or did HQ just choose to ignore it?
Who made these decisions and are they still in post free to make more bad choices?
It's our future that's in the hands of what appears to be a bunch of incompetent fools.
Woody Guthrie wrote:The danger in misunderstanding this ruling and blaming the wrong people (either members or the 'establishment') is that we fail to learn from our mistakes.
This is not a stitch up or a case of the judiciary closing ranks with big business it is a very basic amateurish mistake by the communications department of the CWU. The law on workplace ballots is very simple, ballot papers are sent to members home addresses where they can vote in secret free from real and perceived influence or intimidation from their peers. Anything that interferes with that process is automatically unlawful.
A first year law student would have known that this strategy was likely to be challenged so the question is was the legal advice the CWU received shockingly bad or did HQ just choose to ignore it?
Who made these decisions and are they still in post free to make more bad choices?
It's our future that's in the hands of what appears to be a bunch of incompetent fools.
spot on mate,
Royal Mail managers.....about as popular as a t.urd in a swimming pool!
The DDA/Equality Act demands action,NOT words......adjustments NOT Occupational Health referrals.Case No:2505901/09
Royal Mail is an Equal Opportunities Employer..It discriminates against everybody.
Woody Guthrie wrote:The danger in misunderstanding this ruling and blaming the wrong people (either members or the 'establishment') is that we fail to learn from our mistakes.
This is not a stitch up or a case of the judiciary closing ranks with big business it is a very basic amateurish mistake by the communications department of the CWU. The law on workplace ballots is very simple, ballot papers are sent to members home addresses where they can vote in secret free from real and perceived influence or intimidation from their peers. Anything that interferes with that process is automatically unlawful.
A first year law student would have known that this strategy was likely to be challenged so the question is was the legal advice the CWU received shockingly bad or did HQ just choose to ignore it?
Who made these decisions and are they still in post free to make more bad choices?
It's our future that's in the hands of what appears to be a bunch of incompetent fools.
Can you please supply evidence of where the CWU encouraged me to open and complete my ballot paper at work whilst being filmed at the same time for social media upload purposes??
Don't worry. We'll get another cringe inducing catchphrase 'n a wee lion emoji from the cwu, only thing they're capable of.
Now, just ballot us and stfu this time!
Can you please supply evidence of where the CWU encouraged me to open and complete my ballot paper at work whilst being filmed at the same time for social media upload purposes??
Branches were told to do it by HQ, reps were told to do it by their branches, members were told at gate meetings to do it by their reps. Let's not play dumb here.
The videos are still on both the official CWU Facebook page and their twitter feeds, go look for yourself.
If you're looking for something more personal I have no idea whether you were personally encouraged to do it.
The crux of the matter is the legislation provided for the ballot to be by postal vote and the purposive approach to construction concludes this was to keep the act of voting away from the “frenzy whipped up” within a pressurised workplace as seen in years previous to the Act.
The nature of our jobs meant we could circumvent that provision and on the evidence presented, it seems the union did utilise that unique situation not envisaged to arise by the legislature; a situation that allowed at least some members to vote in a “frenzied” environment rather than at home.
Members not wishing to take part would stick out like a sore thumb, quashing any argument that there was no pressure - the exact pressure the legislation was designed to avoid.
Learn from our mistakes, like someone said above, keep it secret keep it safe needs printing next time.
Can you please supply evidence of where the CWU encouraged me to open and complete my ballot paper at work whilst being filmed at the same time for social media upload purposes??
Branches were told to do it by HQ, reps were told to do it by their branches, members were told at gate meetings to do it by their reps. Let's not play dumb here.
The videos are still on both the official CWU Facebook page and their twitter feeds, go look for yourself.
If you're looking for something more personal I have no idea whether you were personally encouraged to do it.
Did the CWU specifically say complete your ballot paper in work, only vote yes, film it at the same time and make sure you upload it to social media? I dont recall any of that advice being publicised at all, any links to said requests? Thanks
Can you please supply evidence of where the CWU encouraged me to open and complete my ballot paper at work whilst being filmed at the same time for social media upload purposes??
Branches were told to do it by HQ, reps were told to do it by their branches, members were told at gate meetings to do it by their reps. Let's not play dumb here.
The videos are still on both the official CWU Facebook page and their twitter feeds, go look for yourself.
If you're looking for something more personal I have no idea whether you were personally encouraged to do it.
Did the CWU specifically say complete your ballot paper in work, only vote yes, film it at the same time and make sure you upload it to social media? I dont recall any of that advice being publicised at all, any links to said requests? Thanks
Yep let the Infighting , Back Stabbing , recriminations etc begin.
Meanwhile the Employer moves up a gear in the seriously flawed 5 year plan.
Can you please supply evidence of where the CWU encouraged me to open and complete my ballot paper at work whilst being filmed at the same time for social media upload purposes??
Branches were told to do it by HQ, reps were told to do it by their branches, members were told at gate meetings to do it by their reps. Let's not play dumb here.
The videos are still on both the official CWU Facebook page and their twitter feeds, go look for yourself.
If you're looking for something more personal I have no idea whether you were personally encouraged to do it.
Did the CWU specifically say complete your ballot paper in work, only vote yes, film it at the same time and make sure you upload it to social media? I dont recall any of that advice being publicised at all, any links to said requests? Thanks
Yep let the Infighting , Back Stabbing , recriminations etc begin.
Meanwhile the Employer moves up a gear in the seriously flawed 5 year plan.
Im not fighting anyone pal, im perfectly calm thank you very much, i was asking for evidence that's all as i dont recall any CWU representative advising me to upload clips from the workplace to social media of my voting intentions.
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