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Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 08:56

In our office when the manager without notice and intentionally reduces a colleague's overtime claim we call it trimming.An inexcusable and disrespectful practice aimed at achieving his weekly target and also an attempt to dissuade staff from claiming overtime.

However, this post is not about managers trimming overtime it is about RM trimming wages since 1998. In 1998 the Working Time Regulation 1998, provided for employers to pay staff an average amount of the overtime they frequently worked, during their holiday periods.The law was eventually made clear in a case in 2014. Almost immediatley the gov in England and Wales rushed through legislation to limit back pay to 2 years.In NI the legislation was not introduced and this week a union representing the Police won a case which allows staff to claim the wages they were owed back to 1998.

This is relevant to colleague's outside NI as Supreme Court Judges could approve the NI Court of Appeal decision in which case the 2 year limit to back dating payments for colleague's in England and Wales would be lifted.

As the CWU is presently in negotiations about average overtime payments being made during holidays could I suggest you immediately bring this development in NI to their attention.

I would also like to make the CWU aware that colleague's in NI are legally entitled to back payments to 1998 , just like the Police, fire service, civil service and all other workers and we will NOT settle for anything less than the amount we are legally entitled to.

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 12:58

Subman wrote:In our office when the manager without notice and intentionally reduces a colleague's overtime claim we call it trimming.An inexcusable and disrespectful practice aimed at achieving his weekly target and also an attempt to dissuade staff from claiming overtime.

However, this post is not about managers trimming overtime it is about RM trimming wages since 1998. In 1998 the Working Time Regulation 1998, provided for employers to pay staff an average amount of the overtime they frequently worked, during their holiday periods.The law was eventually made clear in a case in 2014. Almost immediatley the gov in England and Wales rushed through legislation to limit back pay to 2 years.In NI the legislation was not introduced and this week a union representing the Police won a case which allows staff to claim the wages they were owed back to 1998.

This is relevant to colleague's outside NI as Supreme Court Judges could approve the NI Court of Appeal decision in which case the 2 year limit to back dating payments for colleague's in England and Wales would be lifted.

As the CWU is presently in negotiations about average overtime payments being made during holidays could I suggest you immediately bring this development in NI to their attention.

I would also like to make the CWU aware that colleague's in NI are legally entitled to back payments to 1998 , just like the Police, fire service, civil service and all other workers and we will NOT settle for anything less than the amount we are legally entitled to.

Ok we may be entitled to it ,however if royal mail had to back pay everyone's average overtime for even 5 yrs it would go out of business, then everyone would be looking for another job. It's wrong that oversized walks aren't amended if the duty holder is happy to do the overtime and part time staff are asked to work full time hrs. There is the crux of the matter though, they are asked not told, all overtime is voluntary so how can you ask to be paid it when you're on a/l ? This could be the straw that breaks royal mails back.

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 13:40

Can't see how this could work, how many staff (ex or current) keep their pay slips that go back further than a year, maybe 2? I'd imagine that most get rid of them once they get their P60 through for the year. I doubt that RM would keep the data for more than a couple of years (might be illegal to do so as well with the Data Protection Act)

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 14:51

rambo1 wrote:
Subman wrote:In our office when the manager without notice and intentionally reduces a colleague's overtime claim we call it trimming.An inexcusable and disrespectful practice aimed at achieving his weekly target and also an attempt to dissuade staff from claiming overtime.

However, this post is not about managers trimming overtime it is about RM trimming wages since 1998. In 1998 the Working Time Regulation 1998, provided for employers to pay staff an average amount of the overtime they frequently worked, during their holiday periods.The law was eventually made clear in a case in 2014. Almost immediatley the gov in England and Wales rushed through legislation to limit back pay to 2 years.In NI the legislation was not introduced and this week a union representing the Police won a case which allows staff to claim the wages they were owed back to 1998.

This is relevant to colleague's outside NI as Supreme Court Judges could approve the NI Court of Appeal decision in which case the 2 year limit to back dating payments for colleague's in England and Wales would be lifted.

As the CWU is presently in negotiations about average overtime payments being made during holidays could I suggest you immediately bring this development in NI to their attention.

I would also like to make the CWU aware that colleague's in NI are legally entitled to back payments to 1998 , just like the Police, fire service, civil service and all other workers and we will NOT settle for anything less than the amount we are legally entitled to.

Ok we may be entitled to it ,however if royal mail had to back pay everyone's average overtime for even 5 yrs it would go out of business, then everyone would be looking for another job. It's wrong that oversized walks aren't amended if the duty holder is happy to do the overtime and part time staff are asked to work full time hrs. There is the crux of the matter though, they are asked not told, all overtime is voluntary so how can you ask to be paid it when you're on a/l ? This could be the straw that breaks royal mails back.

As posted in another thread on the subject.
The process is for any colleagues (Full & Part Time) who routinely carry out overtime to ensure that they are paid on annual leave for the hours that they would normally work & not just their contracted hours.
So overtime being voluntary is not relevant.
(Unite has won a landmark legal victory forcing employers to include voluntary overtime in holiday pay calculations.)
Hopefully there will be an update from the CWU/RM after the meeting tomorrow.
Last edited by rogersh on 20 Jun 2019, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 15:17

SpacePhoenix wrote:Can't see how this could work, how many staff (ex or current) keep their pay slips that go back further than a year, maybe 2? I'd imagine that most get rid of them once they get their P60 through for the year. I doubt that RM would keep the data for more than a couple of years (might be illegal to do so as well with the Data Protection Act)


I actally keep mine in a RM grey sequenced box in the corner behind the sofa. Drops on the mat Thursday- opened, scrutinized, chucked over the back of the sofa and filed. Coming up two years worth now and when it starts overflowing I'll empty it into a plastic box with a lid, store in the shed and start the process again. I still have a couple of boxes worth of payslips from the last employer I worked for who issued them, going back ten years or so.

I suspect this probably isn't typical, or possibly even normal behaviour lol,but I've always hoarded paperwork, which I was glad of when I did my PPI claim a few years ago. Lovely weekend sifting through piles of twenty five year old mortgage and bank statements. In 30 year's time maybe I'll have a nostalgic weekend sifting through RM payslips.

And yes, I am also fun at parties. :cuppa

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 18:46

How are you ever gonna know what overtime you've done in the last 20 years? I struggle to remember last week!

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 18:54

The manager must have one hell of a nest egg by trimming since 1998 bet he must have it on the top of the building Trimming Since 1998 or was it 1828 because slavery was legal then.

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 18:55

SpacePhoenix wrote:Can't see how this could work, how many staff (ex or current) keep their pay slips that go back further than a year, maybe 2? I'd imagine that most get rid of them once they get their P60 through for the year. I doubt that RM would keep the data for more than a couple of years (might be illegal to do so as well with the Data Protection Act)


I have kept every single payslip for the two years I have worked. But yes, I would hate to see what 20 year's worth would look like!

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 21:41

Interested-seeker wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:Can't see how this could work, how many staff (ex or current) keep their pay slips that go back further than a year, maybe 2? I'd imagine that most get rid of them once they get their P60 through for the year. I doubt that RM would keep the data for more than a couple of years (might be illegal to do so as well with the Data Protection Act)


I have kept every single payslip for the two years I have worked. But yes, I would hate to see what 20 year's worth would look like!

I admit to also being a bit of a hoarder. I have all my RM payslips since I started in 1997. They don't actually take up much room as they are quite thin now but used to be a lot thinner.

Trimming since 1998

20 Jun 2019, 21:50

Celgar wrote:
Interested-seeker wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:Can't see how this could work, how many staff (ex or current) keep their pay slips that go back further than a year, maybe 2? I'd imagine that most get rid of them once they get their P60 through for the year. I doubt that RM would keep the data for more than a couple of years (might be illegal to do so as well with the Data Protection Act)


I have kept every single payslip for the two years I have worked. But yes, I would hate to see what 20 year's worth would look like!

I admit to also being a bit of a hoarder. I have all my RM payslips since I started in 1997. They don't actually take up much room as they are quite thin now but used to be a lot thinner.

Might be even more thinner with one a month try chasing your unpaid OT then good Look on that one!

Trimming since 1998

21 Jun 2019, 02:44

I would think wage dept will keep a copy of everyones P60, take off the basic wage and allowances for that year ,leaving total that is overtime,divide by 52 to give weekly overtime for individual years,just done mine for 2018,.only work 23.5 hours basic + allowances £14000, actual total earning £21,000, so £7000 O/t ,so around £140 per week average. well above average for that year,but park and loop partner on long term sick,so covered a lot of his shifts.

Trimming since 1998

23 Jun 2019, 06:37

I average about 5 hrs o/t a week...

So 5hrs x 4 weeks holiday x 2 years ...

Works out owed about 40 hrs ...

So about £400 after tax I think ... :thumbup

Trimming since 1998

23 Jun 2019, 06:41

thegreatestfreddy wrote:I average about 5 hrs o/t a week...

So 5hrs x 4 weeks holiday x 2 years ...

Works out owed about 40 hrs ...

So about £400 after tax I think ... :thumbup


If that was over 20 years ... would be about £4000 ... !! :pray

Trimming since 1998

23 Jun 2019, 09:02

£400 x 20 =£8000.

Trimming since 1998

23 Jun 2019, 14:39

What's the odds the CWU collective agreement presently being negotiated delivers a lump sum of approx £250 or something close to this for all of us (doesn't matter if, or how much o/t completed) to compensate for back payments owed?


Remember RM has known it should have being making these holiday payments since at least 2014.They failed to pay us for 5 years, failed to set aside money for this liability for 5 years but
paid themselves millions and millions in salaries, bonuses and golden handshakes and golden goodbyes.

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