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Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 10:48

I'm looking for advice from anyone experiencing the same as me with regards to being part time.

I'm a Postman on a 27 hour contract. I've been working over 45 hours a week now for two years.

There isn't a chance of being made full time as people have been part time at my depot for over 10 years and contracts are given on seniority.

My frustration is that I only get my contracted 27 hours pay when on leave despite working more than the full time 39 hours.

I am presuming that I am also only accruing 70% towards my pension as well as not receiving full bonus and share entitlements.

Is there an example of being paid full time holidays even though I'm officially only part time?

Any help or advice of where to turn would be great!

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 11:02

Simple answer: All overtime we do is voluntary. So RM are not obligated to pay.

Your pension contributions/delivery supplement are paid up to 39 hours like any FTer.

If you're consistently working over FT in your office get the rep to challenge it, your office needs to be resourced better. After every 6 months your hours are supposed to be reviewed with a view to making you up anyway, in theory.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 11:41

A grey area. As said above, hours should be reviewed under the WFA and yours are a clear case for FT contract, but as is so common unless you take industrial action like Corby did to ensure the agreement is applied it conveniently gets ignored by DIMs in order to minimize their 'basic contract office hours' and thus save RM a packet when you have rota weeks and/or annual leave. In the 2 years this has happened to you it's cost you (Gross) about 12 hours (£132 - ish) for every one of the 9 weeks' leave you would have had in that time. If you work the Wally Week then add another 17 weeks to those 9, so you've either lost about £1180 OR about about £3400 in gross. Naturally RM are delighted with this, but you (like I did but on a smaller scale) get royally rogered.

There has been an EU or High Court ruling on this matter IIRC but it's been appealed or needs legal interpretation (again IIRC so check out with others like TBT who'll have the details better than me) in favour of the worker but the final outcome is not yet clear. Hopefully when it's clarified you guys may be refunded in full with interest. Maybe it'll even be applied retrospectively to those whom have left - this happened once in Birmingham Council's case they lost for traditional sex-discrimination on historical wages, they had to pay back millions going back 30-odd years.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 13:28

It appears that the easiest way to be paid for the full time hours I do is to be made full time!

Does anyone know of an agreement in place that could help?

The only info I can find suggests that I needed to be in place in 2000 to be covered. I only joined 2 years ago

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 17:23

I think this is one of the biggest areas of Grievance in all offices.
Fortunately I got made up to full time float from part time reserve about 3 years ago, and I was one of the last in our office.
Its ridiculous that there are at least a dozen guys in our office who work upto 50 hours a week but are all on PT contracts and drop back down to 25 hours for leave weeks,

When I questioned our rep about challenging it, He said that it would result in RM bringing in a Winter and Summer Contract for all to achieve Their Resource to Work load targets.

Before Christmas there was a notice on the board saying we were short of 10 duties and asking for Overtime volunteers every day. Now they ve lapsed a further 4 walks ( on top of the summer agreement ) and they are telling the Part timers that they cant start until 8 am , even though the majority of them are on full time park and loop duties.

I always believed that Leave / Holiday entitlement was directly related to the number of Hours you worked. I.E Full time hours 38.5 hours a week entitles you to 28 days holiday.

Surely if you are working full time hours you should acrew Holiday at the same rate as someone who is contracted full time?????

Was there not something on here about Northern Ireland winning a ruling on this???

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 17:44

Just to clarify sorry, I work a five day week even part time so get the same amount of holidays as a full time postman.

My query is really around holiday pay avoidance. I am only paid 27 hours when on leave for a week even though I've always worked 45 plus!

I would have thought if I work different hours each week that they would have to average my hours?

This means I would be paid full time pay when I'm off?

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 17:57

Royal mail are crafty. Speak to acas and put in a stage 2 grievance and get your reply to lodge a disagreement

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 19:56

Unfortunately, as everyone else has said before me, this is happening all over the U.K. It's a way of Royal Mail saving money. You are obviously a case for making up to full time (2 years at 45 hours a week). You should get your union rep involved and speak to your manager about increasing your contract. At the very least he should have to "review" your situation. If he does put your hours up, he will probably only give you a 30 hour contract, maybe 35 hours if you are really lucky.
As for getting paid an average wage (above your contract hours) on your holidays, Royal Mail doesn't do this, although I think there was a case in the European court where an employee (not Royal Mail) fought his case and won for an average holiday wage. I can't remember the details (some of our esteemed colleagues might. TBT?), but I remember Royal Mail was having a look at the legislation and the court decision.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 21:52

RMG71 wrote:Just to clarify sorry, I work a five day week even part time so get the same amount of holidays as a full time postman.

My query is really around holiday pay avoidance. I am only paid 27 hours when on leave for a week even though I've always worked 45 plus!



I must be the only person who doesn't see a problem. Your contract is 27 hours and you get paid 27 hours every week including holidays. Any overtime is extra and nothing to do with holiday pay.

Look at it this way. If a full timer works an hour overtime every day would you expect him to get 44 hours when he is on holiday? Of course not, just his contracted hours, same as you and me.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 21:58

NewPostieUK wrote:
Look at it this way. If a full timer works an hour overtime every day would you expect him to get 44 hours when he is on holiday? Of course not, just his contracted hours, same as you and me.

Though if he is doing 1 hour SA every day that is exactly what happens.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

19 Feb 2017, 22:05

RMG71 wrote:I'm looking for advice from anyone experiencing the same as me with regards to being part time.

I'm a Postman on a 27 hour contract. I've been working over 45 hours a week now for two years.

There isn't a chance of being made full time as people have been part time at my depot for over 10 years and contracts are given on seniority.

My frustration is that I only get my contracted 27 hours pay when on leave despite working more than the full time 39 hours.

I am presuming that I am also only accruing 70% towards my pension as well as not receiving full bonus and share entitlements.

Is there an example of being paid full time holidays even though I'm officially only part time?

Any help or advice of where to turn would be great!

Although you have been working 45 hours for 2 years your holiday pay will be on your contracted hours of 27. In relation to your holiday pay and well publicised court judgements on this matter RM are still sitting on the fence until there is now way out for them to pay holiday pay on the regular hours you are working. The problem being is that Employment Tribunal decisions have varied on this matter and I think the Bear V Fuller had to make a decision on what was compulsory overtime as opposed to voluntary overtime and this is the sticky wicket and crux of RM holding out and when appeals have been exhausted.
On the other matter the Agenda for Growth and Stability Agreement which had legal bindings attached stated that contracts should be reviewed locally between union and management every 6 months to reflect on the actual hours that were being worked and this is a matter you need to pursue with the assistance of your union rep. First instance notify your union rep of your situation concerning the amount of hours you have been continually working and the agreement if not satisfied follow up with a grievance. Don't accept the usual bullshit of long term absences, lapsing and traffic downturns in the summer period. What 2 years?

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

20 Feb 2017, 07:03

RMG71 - you are what is known at Royal Mail as a flexible blue shirt and the more flexible blue shirts there are the better for Royal Mail, for instance Royal Mail want to be able to tell every employee what to do when they walk into work this helps them to cover every duty easily, yes most duties thrive when a regular employee does them but as a whole Royal Mail would love to say to "Joe Bloggs" say you do that duty this week as on one else to cover it due to regular postie being on sick. This is why Royal Mail want to scrap Seniority.
Regarding your direct situation your whole office needs to just work their hours this way your manager would jump at the chance to offer you full time.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

20 Feb 2017, 09:41

NewPostieUK wrote:
RMG71 wrote:Just to clarify sorry, I work a five day week even part time so get the same amount of holidays as a full time postman.

My query is really around holiday pay avoidance. I am only paid 27 hours when on leave for a week even though I've always worked 45 plus!



I must be the only person who doesn't see a problem. Your contract is 27 hours and you get paid 27 hours every week including holidays. Any overtime is extra and nothing to do with holiday pay.

Look at it this way. If a full timer works an hour overtime every day would you expect him to get 44 hours when he is on holiday? Of course not, just his contracted hours, same as you and me.


Because if you get a job in a pub for example on a 4 hours contract but work full time you will earn holiday on every hour you earn. Even mcdonalds does this.
On the gov.uk website it states holiday pay must be representative of your usual pay.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

20 Feb 2017, 15:33

If you've been working 45hrs for last 2yrs ,surely you'd already know the answer to your question.
This is another reason not to make someone up to full time ,saving money with annual leave and sickness.

Part Time Postman - should I be paid full time holiday etc ?

20 Feb 2017, 17:15

Im not part-time but in my experience Royal Mail only ever seem to hand out full-time contracts whenever there is a major change taking place like an office revision. And this to me is wrong. It should be reviewed every 3 months.

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