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Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 19:10

I think I saw this briefly mentioned in another thread somewhere, but think it deserves a bit more attention.

Holiday pay (and possibly sick pay) should take into account at least expected overtime (i.e. extended delivery) if not voluntary overtime.

From the direct.gov.uk website:

Overtime and payment for time off

Overtime isn't usually taken into account when working out holiday pay or paid maternity, paternity or adoption leave. However, it is taken into account when the overtime is guaranteed and you have to work the overtime as part of your contract of employment.


From my contract:
9.2
Royal Mail has the responsibility of providing a public service. This puts a special obligation on all employees to play their part in maintaining the kind of service that the public has a right to expect. The nature of the service makes a measure of overtime working necessary. For this reason, it is a condition of your employment that you are liable to work overtime and to attend at varying times on any day (including weekends, Bank and Public Holidays) as the needs of the service demand. Overtime pay will be assessed in accordance with your business units [sic] pay directive, which you can gain access to by contacting your Manager.


In summary: I have to work overtime as part of my contract of employment, therefore it should be taken into account when working out holiday pay, etc. It is not. Why not?

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 19:27

Benethi wrote:I think I saw this briefly mentioned in another thread somewhere, but think it deserves a bit more attention.

Holiday pay (and possibly sick pay) should take into account at least expected overtime (i.e. extended delivery) if not voluntary overtime.

From the direct.gov.uk website:

Overtime and payment for time off

Overtime isn't usually taken into account when working out holiday pay or paid maternity, paternity or adoption leave. However, it is taken into account when the overtime is guaranteed and you have to work the overtime as part of your contract of employment.


From my contract:
9.2
Royal Mail has the responsibility of providing a public service. This puts a special obligation on all employees to play their part in maintaining the kind of service that the public has a right to expect. The nature of the service makes a measure of overtime working necessary. For this reason, it is a condition of your employment that you are liable to work overtime and to attend at varying times on any day (including weekends, Bank and Public Holidays) as the needs of the service demand. Overtime pay will be assessed in accordance with your business units [sic] pay directive, which you can gain access to by contacting your Manager.


In summary: I have to work overtime as part of my contract of employment, therefore it should be taken into account when working out holiday pay, etc. It is not. Why not?

overtime isnt part of your contract where did this rubbish come from ? :dcfo

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 19:33

It IS part of my contract, as quoted just above

it is a condition of your employment that you are liable to work overtime


therefore I want extra holiday pay for it!

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 19:34

Benethi wrote:It IS part of my contract, as quoted just above

it is a condition of your employment that you are liable to work overtime


therefore I want extra holiday pay for it!

i dont think so mate
:arrrghhh

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 19:50

Very interesting, I suppose it hinges on how you interpret the word "liable" in your contract..... It could mean "bound or obliged" to work overtime which makes it seem like a legally binding condition of employment or it could mean "likely" to work overtime which makes it sound more of an optional choice?

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 19:59

[quote="johnnyp"][quote="Bongos"]You only need to work your Contractual Hours as long as you inform Manager before you leave the office if you cannot complete the Delivery. :dance :dance :dance
:nana

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 20:02

I have that clause in my contract so it has been there for at least 5 years. I have never heard of it being enforced though. I doubt managers actually know what is in our contracts anyway.

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 20:23

bringon4dayweeks wrote:You only need to work your Contractual Hours as long as you inform Manager before you leave the office if you cannot complete the Delivery. :dance :dance :dance
:nana


i.e. You have the right to not work overtime if there is a reason you cannot go over.

wacko74 wrote:Very interesting, I suppose it hinges on how you interpret the word "liable" in your contract..... It could mean "bound or obliged" to work overtime which makes it seem like a legally binding condition of employment or it could mean "likely" to work overtime which makes it sound more of an optional choice?


I'd agree it means likely - even so
It is a condition of your employment that you are likely to work overtime

The word condition negates any sense of choice - i.e. you are likely to work overtime, and you must be able to do so.

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 20:27

theyre taking the mick out of you :dance

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 20:31

s a scheduled attendance is paid into holiday pay in mid may and mid august

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 20:34

There is no contractual overtime in Royal Mail.
Haven't we had this out before phil...about the contract thing and the overtime thing?

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 20:36

fishtank wrote:There is no contractual overtime in Royal Mail.
Haven't we had this out before phil...about the contract thing and the overtime thing?

finally someone is on the right track :nana

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 21:51

fishtank wrote:There is no contractual overtime in Royal Mail.
Haven't we had this out before phil...about the contract thing and the overtime thing?


Sweeping generalisation mate....

Yes there is contractual overtime in Royal Mail (it just might not be across all functions....yet) - as per the PDA of 2007 OT is built into the 318s.
This came along with unpaid meal breaks and Bank Holidays and weekends as normal paid working days, losing the old option A and B and the Sunday premium.

As for claiming OT on holiday weeks, professional drivers can claim all OT on their 318 duty for a complete weeks holiday four times during the year. I don't know if delivery can claim it on the same basis but I'm pretty sure all new contracts across RM now have the OT as required clause in it.

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

13 Feb 2011, 22:48

Part-timers suffer the most when it comes to holidays or sick leave. Especially if you're on very small amount of contracted hours but do a huge amount of overtime week-in, week-out; most of which not being SA. You never recoup that lost money when you are away and have to accept your pitiful pro-rata basic pay.

Re: Overtime pay when on holiday

14 Feb 2011, 15:32

Console yourself that you're saving RM loads of money DM, because they're a bit skint at the moment and need all the help they can get! :whistle

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