LTB 370/21 - Average Pay on Annual Leave - Joint Statement for Back Pay Arrangements (Christmas Peak Period) Covering SA Rate Payments for Pre-Scheduled Overtime & part-time to full-time Uplift

[POSTMAN]

https://www.cwu.org/ltb/ltb-370-21-aver ... ertime-pa/

LTB 370/21 – Average Pay on Annual Leave (Holiday Pay) in Royal Mail Group – Joint Statement for Back Pay Arrangements (Christmas Peak Period) Covering SA Rate Payments for Pre-Scheduled Overtime & part-time to full-time Uplift
No. 370/21

6th September 2021

Dear Colleagues,

Average Pay on Annual Leave (Holiday Pay) in Royal Mail Group – Joint Statement for Back Pay Arrangements (Christmas Peak Period) Covering SA Rate Payments for Pre-Scheduled Overtime & part-time to full-time Uplift

Further to LTB 294/21 circulated on 16th July 2021, Branches and Representatives will recall that, just prior to the Branch ballot, an issue was highlighted during a social media Q&A session that related to the Christmas peak (Period 9) and in particular the pre-scheduled, non-contractual overtime being paid at scheduled attendance rate as well as temporary variations of contract.

The potential consequence was that this practice may prevent some members from meeting the regularity threshold of the six-month qualifying periods where Period 9 was included. Branches and Representatives will know that Christmas is the only time of the year where there is a wholesale adjustment to the National Scheduled Attendance Agreement in Royal Mail and Parcelforce although in the latter the arrangements are covered in the Autumn Pressure Agreement.

Therefore, in order to resolve this matter and obtain an agreed joint clarification of how this discrepancy can be resolved for the back pay calculation as well as in the future a series of meetings were held between the DGS(P) Department and the business. During those talks it became apparent that whilst Royal Mail Group were able to use the PSP system to distinguish between scheduled attendance hours and those paid as pressure, they do not yet have the ability to separate the pre-scheduled hours paid over Period 9 as non-contractual scheduled attendance.

It was recognised early in the talks that the immediate problem this presented related to the manual calculation of back pay. As there is already a demand from members to know when back payments will be made, this aspect had to take priority. In addition, consideration was also given to scheduled attendance and bank holiday pay over Christmas, the part-time qualification for the Christmas supplement where there had been an agreed variation of contract and the underpin payment arrangements.

Whilst the matter under discussion was originally highlighted in relation to full-time, it also became evident that there is a significant impact upon part-time. Using 2019 as a representative year, due to Covid being prevalent in 2020, the statistics show that in excess of 6,600 part-time employees increased their hours in Period 9 with close to 4,000 varying their hours to full-time and above for more than two weeks.

The business originally proposed that Period 9 was removed altogether for everyone from the back pay regularity threshold. This was rejected as without further clarification and guidelines there would undoubtedly have been an adverse impact on many members who then would have seen their normal rate overtime hours performed in Period 9 removed from the back pay calculation.

There have been a number of complexities to these talks however I am now pleased to report that at a meeting on 26th August 2021 the attached Joint Statement was endorsed by the Postal Executive.

Branches will see that there is now an agreement to define the process for the calculation of back pay and in particular the impact of Period 9. The estimated date for these payments to be made is late September/early October although a further clarification of the exact dates will be provided in the coming weeks. In terms of the calculation itself, there are now conditions attached to the removal of Period 9. This means that a failure to meet the regularity threshold due to the alternative pay arrangements during this period will not mean a disqualification from the regularity test. Furthermore, if a member qualifies in the remaining monthly periods (7, 8, 10, 11 and 12) then for Period 9 any overtime hours paid as normal overtime rate or all part-time single rate overtime outside of agreed temporary contract variations are included in the calculation.

Members who have performed pre-scheduled overtime during the Christmas Period will meet the regularity test but earnings from hours paid at scheduled attendance rate will be excluded from the average pay calculation. This is due to having received the higher pay rate and the average of the SA they have performed being paid to them for the Christmas Period Bank Holidays. This principle will also apply to part-time members who by local agreement have a temporary increase to their conditioned hours to full-time for a minimum of two weeks in the Christmas Peak Period and qualify to receive the full amount of the £100 Christmas supplement and the £100 Colleague Share (underpin) payment.

National negotiations will now be held to agree a process for the calculation going forward including how Period 9 features and may well have to involve both Davie Robertson and Mark Baulch’s Departments. The data that emanates from the back pay calculations will help to inform these talks and the aim will be to reach a conclusion by 31st October 2021, after which a further update will be provided to Branches.

Negotiations will also continue at a national level in order to be able to identify those hours above pre-scheduled overtime levels paid as ad-hoc overtime for LGV drivers. It has been agreed that YDC will be used as a test unit where such data can be jointly evaluated. The objective will then be to reach agreement for a process that can be overlaid nationally.

Branches will recognise that the terms of the main national agreement centre on an agreed definition for the regularity of overtime together with the associated reference periods. The agreement will prove significantly beneficial to our part-time members especially if used in conjunction with the national joint statement for resourcing, and recruitment and Branches are encouraged to utilise the terms of both agreements together.

When originally negotiating a national agreement of this magnitude, Branches and Representatives will know that it was never going to be possible to accommodate every single individual duty pattern. Whilst the attached Joint Statement now provides further clarification around the calculation of back pay, it is possible that other issues may also emerge as this data is analysed. Branches will recall that the main national agreement provides for joint reviews after six and twelve months. It is therefore the intention to pick up any other outstanding issues that are identified as part of this activity at that stage.

Branches and Representatives will be advised of further developments as they occur. Any enquiries in relation to the content of this LTB should be addressed to the DGS(P) Department.

Yours sincerely,

Terry Pullinger

Deputy General Secretary (Postal)

Attachment to LTB 370/21 – Joint Statement – Annual Leave (Holiday Pay) Back Pay 120821 Signed 060921

[MinTee]

End of October lmao

Pathetic, the company still breaks employment law in the meantime. This is just them stalling and stalling and CWU puts not pressure on to get money legally owed paid ASAP.

There should be no ifs of buts, just pay the money. They’ve already got off with a dodgy deal.

[spen]

By the time they have used wvery excuse they can find to get out of paying not many folks will be getting anything

[Kaning It]

What a load of nonsense.

Just pay holiday pay based on the average wage over the last 12 months. Like most companies (including the agencies who supply temps) do to comply with the law.

P*ssing around with an unnecessary definition of regular when post wouldn’t get delivered without pretty much the entire National delivery staff doing overtime every day is insulting.

[andyman606]

What a load of nonsense.

Just pay holiday pay based on the average wage over the last 12 months. Like most companies (including the agencies who supply temps) do to comply with the law.

P*ssing around with an unnecessary definition of regular when post wouldn’t get delivered without pretty much the entire National delivery staff doing overtime every day is insulting.

Quite simple isn't it if you do the above unless you want to make it really complicated so you can avoid paying it! Stuff the 8 hrs a month bull just take the amount of overtime over 12 months divide it by 12 then times it by 4 that will give you the amount you need to pay extra for the first 4 weeks holidays.
Or even simpler just pay it yearly after the amounts become clear ala P60's of individuals hours/amounts worked over contracted hours....
A 14 year old could work this out and have the back pay paid by now....do the math as the Americans say...Jesus

[Jack1960]

What a load of nonsense.

Just pay holiday pay based on the average wage over the last 12 months. Like most companies (including the agencies who supply temps) do to comply with the law.

P*ssing around with an unnecessary definition of regular when post wouldn’t get delivered without pretty much the entire National delivery staff doing overtime every day is insulting.

Quite simple isn't it if you do the above unless you want to make it really complicated so you can avoid paying it! Stuff the 8 hrs a month bull just take the amount of overtime over 12 months divide it by 12 then times it by 4 that will give you the amount you need to pay extra for the first 4 weeks holidays.
Or even simpler just pay it yearly after the amounts become clear ala P60's of individuals hours/amounts worked over contracted hours....
A 14 year old could work this out and have the back pay paid by now....do the math as the Americans say...Jesus

[rambo1]

The longer they string it out, the more people who leave the business will not have to be paid out. Am I being cynical?

[yellowbelly]

The longer they string it out, the more people who leave the business will not have to be paid out. Am I being cynical?

rambo - it's easy to be cynical regarding anything to do with RM, but in this case anybody who was in RM employment
when the agreement was signed (16th Jun 2021) who subsequently leave/have left will be entitled to backpayments
(as long as they meet the criteria). It's in the agreement.

[Dexydog]

The agreement was signed off 3 months ago.
I mean, come on!
Don't give a toss personally as mine is going to ET (which will probably take another 2 years I wouldn't be surprised).
The fact is for those waiting to paid the union should be all over this like a rash- and what do people get; total silence.

[rambo1]

The longer they string it out, the more people who leave the business will not have to be paid out. Am I being cynical?

rambo - it's easy to be cynical regarding anything to do with RM, but in this case anybody who was in RM employment
when the agreement was signed (16th Jun 2021) who subsequently leave/have left will be entitled to backpayments
(as long as they meet the criteria). It's in the agreement.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, thought they'd apply the same rule as they did with the pay rise back pay last year.

[cher2450]

But the agreement doesn't allow for any periods that you are off on annual leave for two weeks then come back to no overtime and can't easily make up to the 8 hours overtime needed that month to be included in the backpack calculation! It's a con and the cwu must know that! Surely it would be fairer to say that as long as you met the criteria 5 out of the 6 months you would still qualify for backpack/ extra holiday pay as otherwise it penalises you for holiday time off. Pretty harsh and also discriminates for anyone that was off work on sick leave or any other form of leave for any length of time. It's beggars belief that this was allowed to go through.

[worktotime]

right i have just worked out how this agreement has worked for the first 6 month and just show what a s**t deal this is and how the company will benefit out of this , my overtime over this , April 19 hrs - 10 mins
May 10 hrs - 00 mins
June 4 hrs - 10 mins ***
July 11 hrs - 15 mins
Aug 12 hrs - 37 mins
Sept 21 hrs - 10 mins
____________________
Total 74 hrs - 22 mins

so looking at this and because i didnt hit the 8 hrs target in June i wont be entitled to any average holiday pay , so i would like to hear what Mr walsh thinks of this ? and you think this was a great deal for your paying members.

[HTPostman]

right i have just worked out how this agreement has worked for the first 6 month and just show what a s**t deal this is and how the company will benefit out of this , my overtime over this , April 19 hrs - 10 mins
May 10 hrs - 00 mins
June 4 hrs - 10 mins ***
July 11 hrs - 15 mins
Aug 12 hrs - 37 mins
Sept 21 hrs - 10 mins
____________________
Total 74 hrs - 22 mins

so looking at this and because i didnt hit the 8 hrs target in June i wont be entitled to any average holiday pay , so i would like to hear what Mr walsh thinks of this ? and you think this was a great deal for your paying members.

It’s very poor isn’t it? For me personally now starting on a 4 day week there’s nothing for me to gain from helping out. Whereas before I might’ve helped out with an hour at the end or come in early to prep another round, it’s pointless now because as soon as I have a week or 2 off it’s going to be very difficult to catch up in the remaining 2 weeks of that month.

So it comes down to, am I happy with £8 ish after tax to do an extra hour, knowing I won’t qualify for holiday pay? The answer is no, and I know quite a few in my situation who are now just working to time.

[worktotime]

right i have just worked out how this agreement has worked for the first 6 month and just show what a s**t deal this is and how the company will benefit out of this , my overtime over this , April 19 hrs - 10 mins
May 10 hrs - 00 mins
June 4 hrs - 10 mins ***
July 11 hrs - 15 mins
Aug 12 hrs - 37 mins
Sept 21 hrs - 10 mins
____________________
Total 74 hrs - 22 mins

so looking at this and because i didnt hit the 8 hrs target in June i wont be entitled to any average holiday pay , so i would like to hear what Mr walsh thinks of this ? and you think this was a great deal for your paying members.

It’s very poor isn’t it? For me personally now starting on a 4 day week there’s nothing for me to gain from helping out. Whereas before I might’ve helped out with an hour at the end or come in early to prep another round, it’s pointless now because as soon as I have a week or 2 off it’s going to be very difficult to catch up in the remaining 2 weeks of that month.

So it comes down to, am I happy with £8 ish after tax to do an extra hour, knowing I won’t qualify for holiday pay? The answer is no, and I know quite a few in my situation who are now just working to time.

its disgusting , and its even worse that the cwu have basically brushed all there members claims under the carpet including mine , and yes you can continue with your e/t BUT you have to pay for someone to deal with it and you have to resubmit all your claims again , and im not wasting any time or money on it , anyway i will save £190 a year from my cwu subs

[HTPostman]

right i have just worked out how this agreement has worked for the first 6 month and just show what a s**t deal this is and how the company will benefit out of this , my overtime over this , April 19 hrs - 10 mins
May 10 hrs - 00 mins
June 4 hrs - 10 mins ***
July 11 hrs - 15 mins
Aug 12 hrs - 37 mins
Sept 21 hrs - 10 mins
____________________
Total 74 hrs - 22 mins

so looking at this and because i didnt hit the 8 hrs target in June i wont be entitled to any average holiday pay , so i would like to hear what Mr walsh thinks of this ? and you think this was a great deal for your paying members.

It’s very poor isn’t it? For me personally now starting on a 4 day week there’s nothing for me to gain from helping out. Whereas before I might’ve helped out with an hour at the end or come in early to prep another round, it’s pointless now because as soon as I have a week or 2 off it’s going to be very difficult to catch up in the remaining 2 weeks of that month.

So it comes down to, am I happy with £8 ish after tax to do an extra hour, knowing I won’t qualify for holiday pay? The answer is no, and I know quite a few in my situation who are now just working to time.

its disgusting , and its even worse that the cwu have basically brushed all there members claims under the carpet including mine , and yes you can continue with your e/t BUT you have to pay for someone to deal with it and you have to resubmit all your claims again , and im not wasting any time or money on it , anyway i will save £190 a year from my cwu subs

What surprises me is it didn’t go to a member vote - instead it was a branch vote, and I don’t understand why other than CWU wanted this pushing through quickly. I genuinely wish those submitting their own claims all the best.