All the LTB'S and latest discussion threads on getting extra holiday payments when going on holiday for those who work above their contracted hours.For part-timers 'and' full-timers.
I’m not interested in the union helping themselves, I pay my subs for them to help me , although I’m not sure they ever really can , as they no longer have the power and influence they used to have.
This.
Genuinely, ask yourself what they actually do for YOU.
Correct me if I’m wrong..but without a union what would be your basic be now??come out if the union if you don’t like them..but then I’d expect you to give back any pay rise or back pay you will receive!!
Correct me if I’m wrong..but without a union what would be your basic be now?
Hard to say really, you could probably find people to do the job for less but it's keeping them that's the trick otherwise you just bleed cash through your recruitment and training costs.
I doubt it would be much less than what it is, the conditions might be a bit more draconian but we're heading in that direction anyway.
So can anyone tell me the chances of this actually happening? I have no real faith in the CWU winning this battle anyway, but the reason I ask is that as of this week I am no longer in the job as I got a full time job elsewhere. My worry is that CWU manage to get the average pay backdated then Royal Mail saying I am not entitled to it as I no longer am an employee.
I would be due over £1000 by my calculations so it would be a disgrace if they did try to with keep it from me, but I can't say I would be surprised sadly.
So can anyone tell me the chances of this actually happening? I have no real faith in the CWU winning this battle anyway, but the reason I ask is that as of this week I am no longer in the job as I got a full time job elsewhere. My worry is that CWU manage to get the average pay backdated then Royal Mail saying I am not entitled to it as I no longer am an employee.
I would be due over £1000 by my calculations so it would be a disgrace if they did try to with keep it from me, but I can't say I would be surprised sadly.
Any thoughts on this please?
It's in the agreement:
In respect of back pay, the employee will need to be in employment on the date that the
Agreement Letter is signed by both parties to qualify for any payment.
which was 16th Jun just gone
so you're ok in that respect
and
Employees will have to have been employed by Royal Mail for the full qualifying period
in order to receive a payment (whether one of the top up or back payments) but they do
not have to be in employment at the date of payment (so if they leave Royal Mail
between the end of the qualifying period and payment date, they are still entitled to
receive payment if they hit the regularity threshold for the qualifying period).
so you will be entitled to backpayments but for the qualifying period we're in now (Apr 21 to Sep 21) you've dipped out, previous
6 month qualifying periods you should qualify if you've worked the required 8 hours OT each 4/5 week period.
In the words of Alan Hansen, absolutely shocking. How can a branch not return a vote on such an important matter?!
I’m pleased to say my branch consulted us (albeit through our Facebook group) and as most of us voted no, the branch therefore voted against the agreement too. Didn’t make a difference in the end mind.
I would imagine if everyone understood the legislation and caselaw development for average pay/annual leave, many more would have said no - it’s been poorly represented.
So now, agency staff get average holiday pay every time, actually employees may well not.
I think it’s intentionally been made as confusing as possible so people don’t look away from their Love Island and actually spend 10 minutes reading the proposed agreement. Even now I’m seeing people ask en masse ‘when we getting our money?’ They don’t realise they could do 25 hours of OT a week every week, but one month if they have 2 weeks Annual Leave and come back to find the DOM has cut out all their OT for the other 2 weeks, that’s nearly 2 X £300 before tax waved away. And repeat for the 2nd part of the year.
If my DOM has his wits about him and does that to me I stand to miss out on about £700 a year pre tax.
The union haven’t helped themselves at all, all the information they release about anything has to be overload central. They can’t do simple summary bullet points for us rushed off our feet, tired from our rounds plebs to understand. It’s like both the Union and RM have overloaded us with gobbledygook so we just say yes.
I don’t like that, it’s wrong.
Agree totally with the overload point.
Too many have been confused by this having to define regular argument and/or Brexit may have changed things. Of course apathy after 7 long years is also an issue where people have been ground down to accept something rather than nothing but a Union should not put their members in that position. They should keep at it and get the right and fair result, not a cop out.
Re Brexit, the EU Working Time Directive was made part of UK law by the Working Time Regulations and so that shouldn’t matter and re regular, no need whatsoever for the ridiculous definition. As I have said previously, last year’s change to a 52 week reference period is all it needs. I have not seen any examples of any companies who have defined regular or any tribunal decisions which make an issue of this - if they exist why haven’t the Union backed up this position with examples? ‘The Good Work Plan’ gives a neat example of how it is supposed to be following the change from a 12 to 52 weeks reference period. No mention of a definition of ‘regular’ and in fact the opposite as the point is that holiday pay should reflect the hours worked across the year:
“Example of how a 52 week holiday pay reference period would operate
Chitrita works in a large retail store, working on average 35 hours each week. May, June and July are quieter months for the store and so Chitrita typically works 25 hours per week. Under the current 12 week reference period for holiday pay if Chitrita takes holiday in August, immediately after this quieter time, her holiday pay will reflect her 25 hour working week. This means she will receive less holiday pay compared to busier times of the year.
However, once the reference period is extended to 52 weeks, Chitrita’s holiday pay would reflect her average hours for the entire year, which are usually higher than during these quieter months. This is a fairer approach for Chitrita and her employer as her holiday pay will better reflect her working hours across the year.”
But what’s done is done. And those with outstanding claims can carry on if they like. The Union agreeing with RM to not support the very members they encouraged to make a claim is a such sell out. It will be interesting to see how many of the 6000+ do carry on. If it’s the majority, RM will no doubt offer settlements rather than fight every single case at an ET.
CWU agreeing with RM to not support the very members who brought their claim to tribunal is the lowest of the low. I will return the favour and withdraw my subs. I’m winning already. I encourage the 6000 to do the same
already done it , and so has another 5 in the office , there a joke . and when you hear the talk of backpay , you will only get backpay if you fit into this new agreement , 6 months at 8 hours per month ie 48 hours o/t , so you could have worked 60 hours o/t over 5 month but only do 7.59 in the 6th month and you wont get jack s**t , well what a great deal
Correct me if I’m wrong..but without a union what would be your basic be now??come out if the union if you don’t like them..but then I’d expect you to give back any pay rise or back pay you will receive!!
I'll give back my pay rise when the CWU give me my original pension back
I think we need to sit down somewhere quiet, get some kind of drink of your choice and then close your eyes and think.
Then you will realise how f***ing scummy this firm has been through all this.
Cheers
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been. My BFF Clash The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
Correct me if I’m wrong..but without a union what would be your basic be now??come out if the union if you don’t like them..but then I’d expect you to give back any pay rise or back pay you will receive!!
The union negotiate on behalf of everyone ,regardless of whether or not they are union members, it’s called collective bargaining, I’ve no idea what my basic would be to be perfectly honest but I imagine it wouldn’t be that far apart from where it is now.
