Overtime Rate and Sunday Working

[Lockardian]

Can anyone explain to me in what circumstances the Sunday shift gets paid at the lower overtime rate rather than the standard rate?

I understand that if total hours worked in a week exceed 38 hours, and a Sunday is included, the entire shift gets paid at the lower rate. But does it matter whether you work a Sunday nightshift (end of the week but start of the week as far as pay goes as our pay cutoff is midnight Sunday) then 38 or so hours AFTER that shift during that week OR a Sunday dayshift/nightshift at the end of the week?

For example:

SCENARIO A:
I work 2200-0600 on Sunday 10 May - 8 hours - get paid from 2200-0000 (2 hours) the following Friday (15th May)
I then worked 36 hours between Monday and Saturday (11-16 May)

I would expect to be paid 36 hours and the remaining 6 Sunday hours the week after that. Will those 6 Sunday hours be at overtime rate? Would the two hours already paid be recalculated?

SCENARIO B:
I work 37 hours between Monday and Saturday 11-16 May.
I work 2200-0600 (8 hours) on the Sunday night (17 May).

I get paid my 37 hours plus the first 2 Sunday hours (2200-0000) the following Friday. Will the two Sunday hours and the remaining 6 Sunday hours all be at the overtime rate, split between 2 payslips. Or just the first two?

SCENARIO C:
As Scenario B but all Sunday hours are before midnight (eg a day shift) - I expect all these Sunday hours to be at overtime rate.

I believe the RM week officially starts at 2.01am on the Monday morning so Sunday should always the last day of the week (despite the way it is paid by Angard) so only the hours you do BEFORE the Sunday affect the rate and not those afterwards (which are technically the next week)? So in the case of my scenarios, in Scenario A I would get full Sunday pay (provided I hadn’t worked over 30 hours the previous week - 4-10 May)? Only Scenarios B and C would cause overtime rates to kick in?

I have of course asked payroll but got nowhere.

[tabact]

I'd expect the shift to count from the time it started so Angard would probably pay the lower o/t rate for the whole shift knowing the way they operate. A chat with the book room is probably your best option and find out how they interpret a Sunday n/s in regards to the start or finish of the week.

[Lockardian]

Yes, I’ll do that.

My thoughts are that last Sunday’s rate has already been calculated (as I’ve already been paid the first two hours at full rate) so this shift may not be impacted by the number of hours worked the “next week”. It would make more sense - how can you work overtime before you’ve actually worked any hours at all?

But Angard being Angard, who knows? Our pay is not necessarily worked out the same way as Royal Mail’s is (set rate per hour rather than basic plus allowances).

[Lockardian]

Anyone had recent experience of this? With the amount of hours floating around right now I’d be surprised if not.

By the way, why is Royal Mail/Angard overtime paid at a lower rate than standard hours - when in most companies the opposite is the case? This is the first time I’ve came across this.

[tabact]

I know when I've worked a 21.00-02.00 shift on a Sunday we've been told by a manager to put the hours down as 19.00-24.00 to make sure everything was paid at the Sunday rate rather than night rate due to finishing at 02.00 on the Monday. Have you worked a Saturday night shift and what happens for the Sunday hours worked on that shitf?

I think the lower o/t rates have something to do with various historical allowances getting consolidated over the years into the basic hourly rate but not the o/t rate. The crap about the whole Sunday shift paid at o/t even if you have only just gone over 38 hours is a mystery. If you ask RM staff they never seem to have any idea how they are paid regarding o/t on a Sunday. When I queried it a long time ago I basically got the answer if you don't like it don't do overtime. Never could get a reason for it and as I rarely do o/t dropped trying to get an answer. The rare occasion it happens I'll either put up with it or stop working once I've reached 38 hours for the week. The weekend managers know the situation and are used to me leaving early or signing out an hour earlier than I actually finished to keep under 38 hours for the week as the drop in the hourly rate is so high over the shift it's worth losing an hour and still be in front pay wise.

[tabact]

Spoke to somebody yesterday who works nights and it appears Angard want the best of both worlds.

If the shift starts on a Saturday the whole shift is paid at standard night rate. If the shift starts on a Sunday only the hours up to midnight are paid at Sunday rate and the rest of the shift reverts to standard night rate.

[Lockardian]

In my experience, whenever I have worked a Sunday nightshift the entire shift has been paid at Sunday “night” rate - I’ve never been paid more than one rate for a any shift - our start and finish time dictates the rate and it should make no difference if the shift spans different days or rates. Night rate applies for 3 or more hours worked between 11pm-5pm. I would seriously query that if I were you.

Saturday nights used to have all hours paid at Sunday night rate too, though this appears to have been an error which has now been corrected. You shouldn’t be paid Sunday rate unless your shift starts at 2.01am Sunday or later. Similarly, you shouldn’t be paid Monday rate if your Sunday nightshift starts before 2.01am Monday. This is why “Maundy Thursday“ nightshift does not attract Good Friday/Bank Holiday rate.

The complication regarding Sunday night is that hours worked after midnight don’t get paid until a week after the hours before midnight. So when calculating total hours worked in a week, the Sunday hours could be added to the week that follows rather than the week just finishing. Or they may just class them as having been worked the previous week despite the week they show up on your payslip. That’s why it’s so hard to know whether or not you’ve exceeded 38 hours in a particular week. I like your idea of booking out an hour or so before you really went home, if that makes you better off. Tempted to try it if I’m ever in that position and a shift takes me just over the 38 hours. But I would need to know if they’ve included Sunday hours after midnight in their calculation. This week I worked 36 hours Mon-Fri and am owed 5 hours from 0000-0500 Sunday - it’ll be interesting to see what rate I get for those Sunday hours and this will partly answer the question. I chose not to work this coming Sunday night, fully expecting all or part of them to be paid at overtime rate. Most nuances of the pay system/regulations I’ve learned by trial and error.

The only time I have had more than one rate paid for a shift are the few occasions when I worked some hours on distribution and some on processing. This was due to these jobs having different cost centres so had to go on different timesheets and if I worked the final hour of the night on distribution, the system “thought” I had started a one-hour shift at 5am and paid me an hour at early rate accordingly. When this happened I contacted Angard/the book room who sorted it for me.

As for bank holidays, I think the bank holiday “overtime” rate is applied regardless of what other shifts have been worked that week. So you could do 38 hours AND the bank holiday and get the set rate for the bank holiday shift. I’m not sure if the bank holiday hours count towards your 38 hours - I suspect not - so you may be able to do say 30 normal hours and 8 bank holiday hours and still be able to work up to 8 hours on the Sunday and be paid at Sunday rate.

[tabact]

I'm sure you're right about Sunday night shift payments. The person I spoke to had to think about it as he didn't seem too sure at first and Sunday night shifts are quite rare other than the Christmas period. The bank holiday rate is paid regardless of what hours you have worked.