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Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

07 Sep 2017, 11:00

Everyone knows maintaining the USO is the biggest financial burden on this company.

For the company to petition the government to change the USO from six days a week to less there has to be a sound reason as to why. As long as RM is still making hefty profits this argument can not be made. If however we get to a stage where where stamp prices and cost of services begin to exceed what the public deem as reasonable, RM can turn around and say well we'll maintain current prices but we'll reduce the USO as a result.

Is the unwillingness to negotiate with the CWU, potentially forcing a strke, part of this bigger strategy to make RM look too costly?

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

07 Sep 2017, 19:24

I have wondered myself if senior management do have some clever ulterior motive to run the company into the ground and devalue it to the point that the burden of the USO is removed or reduced... or if they're just running the company into the ground through sheer incompetence. :hmmmm

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

07 Sep 2017, 19:41

wacko74 wrote:I have wondered myself if senior management do have some clever ulterior motive to run the company into the ground and devalue it to the point that the burden of the USO is removed or reduced... or if they're just running the company into the ground through sheer incompetence. :hmmmm

USO removed - not possible :thumbdown
USO reduced - quite possible :shock:

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

08 Sep 2017, 11:25

norm wrote:Everyone knows maintaining the USO is the biggest financial burden on this company.

For the company to petition the government to change the USO from six days a week to less there has to be a sound reason as to why. As long as RM is still making hefty profits this argument can not be made. If however we get to a stage where where stamp prices and cost of services begin to exceed what the public deem as reasonable, RM can turn around and say well we'll maintain current prices but we'll reduce the USO as a result.

Is the unwillingness to negotiate with the CWU, potentially forcing a strke, part of this bigger strategy to make RM look too costly?


Managed Decline - quite possible.
The fact Moya Greene and senior executives are not taking part in negotiations seems fishy to me - do they want christmas strikes - possibly.

I heard rumours DHL were interested.

Could there be a buyout for the parcels side of the business - quite possible.

A trimmed down more manageable royal mail just delivering letters and flats - wouldn't surprise me.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

08 Sep 2017, 17:08

ernieshoe wrote:
norm wrote:Everyone knows maintaining the USO is the biggest financial burden on this company.

For the company to petition the government to change the USO from six days a week to less there has to be a sound reason as to why. As long as RM is still making hefty profits this argument can not be made. If however we get to a stage where where stamp prices and cost of services begin to exceed what the public deem as reasonable, RM can turn around and say well we'll maintain current prices but we'll reduce the USO as a result.

Is the unwillingness to negotiate with the CWU, potentially forcing a strke, part of this bigger strategy to make RM look too costly?


Managed Decline - quite possible.
The fact Moya Greene and senior executives are not taking part in negotiations seems fishy to me - do they want christmas strikes - possibly.

I heard rumours DHL were interested.

Could there be a buyout for the parcels side of the business - quite possible.

A trimmed down more manageable royal mail just delivering letters and flats - wouldn't surprise me.

But Royal Mail keep telling us that letters are declining and parcels are the future so surely they wouldn't then sell off the parcels side of the business. :Applause

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

08 Sep 2017, 17:43

Lounge Lizard wrote:But Royal Mail keep telling us that letters are declining and parcels are the future so surely they wouldn't then sell off the parcels side of the business. :Applause

Not unless there was some kind of plan to outsource a chunk of the packets to another courier. I can't see how that would benefit RM though.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

08 Sep 2017, 18:09

Alexei wrote:
Lounge Lizard wrote:But Royal Mail keep telling us that letters are declining and parcels are the future so surely they wouldn't then sell off the parcels side of the business. :Applause

Not unless there was some kind of plan to outsource a chunk of the packets to another courier. I can't see how that would benefit RM though.

No, then they'd need to satisfy the other courier's shareholders as well as Royal Mail's shareholders. :Applause

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

09 Sep 2017, 08:38

wacko74 wrote:I have wondered myself if senior management do have some clever ulterior motive to run the company into the ground and devalue it to the point that the burden of the USO is removed or reduced... or if they're just running the company into the ground through sheer incompetence. :hmmmm


That requires competent long-term planning and being good at their jobs - both of which are severely lacking in this company.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

09 Sep 2017, 19:46

ernieshoe wrote:
norm wrote:Everyone knows maintaining the USO is the biggest financial burden on this company.

For the company to petition the government to change the USO from six days a week to less there has to be a sound reason as to why. As long as RM is still making hefty profits this argument can not be made. If however we get to a stage where where stamp prices and cost of services begin to exceed what the public deem as reasonable, RM can turn around and say well we'll maintain current prices but we'll reduce the USO as a result.

Is the unwillingness to negotiate with the CWU, potentially forcing a strke, part of this bigger strategy to make RM look too costly?


Managed Decline - quite possible.
The fact Moya Greene and senior executives are not taking part in negotiations seems fishy to me - do they want christmas strikes - possibly.

I heard rumours DHL were interested.

Could there be a buyout for the parcels side of the business - quite possible.
A trimmed down more manageable royal mail just delivering letters and flats - wouldn't surprise me.

The only thing that holds Parcel force within RMG is the Legally binding agreement, if RM walk away from this then we could see owner drivers or even a sell off , of Parcel Force, interesting times people. :wave :wave

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

09 Sep 2017, 21:58

I think RM really want to only deliver 1st class mail and treat second class like thrid class. In a way I agree, 1st class should be there quickly and 2nd class should be delivered when you are going there anyway. It would in effect treat 2nd class a bit like addressed Door 2 Door items.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

10 Sep 2017, 00:43

Spedley wrote:I think RM really want to only deliver 1st class mail and treat second class like thrid class. In a way I agree, 1st class should be there quickly and 2nd class should be delivered when you are going there anyway. It would in effect treat 2nd class a bit like addressed Door 2 Door items.

But that's how it was for a while on the railways, first class and third class.
We've had first class and second class post for fifty years now and then the great majority of mail was stamped mail.
A lot has changed since then and a forward thinking company might consider all possible options.
Surely first class, with delivery next day, is more of a challenge than second class, three days.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

10 Sep 2017, 06:19

Genuine question regarding 1st and 2nd Class mail... how is DSA treated?

I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is that under the USO we have to treat ALL DSA mail as 1st class?!

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

10 Sep 2017, 07:30

wacko74 wrote:Genuine question regarding 1st and 2nd Class mail... how is DSA treated?

I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is that under the USO we have to treat ALL DSA mail as 1st class?!

Yep, and once the mail reaches the inward MC (your local MC) everything that they send out to you is due for delivery that day (ecept d2ds). The difference between 1st and 2nd class is built into when it arrives at the inward MC.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

10 Sep 2017, 13:12

SpacePhoenix wrote:
wacko74 wrote:Genuine question regarding 1st and 2nd Class mail... how is DSA treated?

I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is that under the USO we have to treat ALL DSA mail as 1st class?!

Yep, and once the mail reaches the inward MC (your local MC) everything that they send out to you is due for delivery that day (ecept d2ds). The difference between 1st and 2nd class is built into when it arrives at the inward MC.

Yes, DSA gets the First Class service for a Third Class price. :thumbdown

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

11 Sep 2017, 17:08

SpacePhoenix wrote:
wacko74 wrote:Genuine question regarding 1st and 2nd Class mail... how is DSA treated?

I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is that under the USO we have to treat ALL DSA mail as 1st class?!

Yep, and once the mail reaches the inward MC (your local MC) everything that they send out to you is due for delivery that day (ecept d2ds). The difference between 1st and 2nd class is built into when it arrives at the inward MC.


Another genuine question. I've never worked in processing so its all a bit mysterious to me - but when you receive incoming mail how is 1st class treated differently to 2nd class ? Customers have asked me this in the past and I've been at a loss to explain. Does 2nd class get put to one side for a day or what ?

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

11 Sep 2017, 20:12

jetblack wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
wacko74 wrote:Genuine question regarding 1st and 2nd Class mail... how is DSA treated?

I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is that under the USO we have to treat ALL DSA mail as 1st class?!

Yep, and once the mail reaches the inward MC (your local MC) everything that they send out to you is due for delivery that day (ecept d2ds). The difference between 1st and 2nd class is built into when it arrives at the inward MC.


Another genuine question. I've never worked in processing so its all a bit mysterious to me - but when you receive incoming mail how is 1st class treated differently to 2nd class ? Customers have asked me this in the past and I've been at a loss to explain. Does 2nd class get put to one side for a day or what ?


1st: Posted day A, processed day A, sent to inward MC, processed by Inward MC overnight day A/ early morning day B, delivered by DOs day B
2nd: Posted day A, put to one side, processed day B, sent to inward MC, processed by Inward MC overnight day B/ early morning day C, delivered by DOs day C

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

11 Sep 2017, 20:34

Thanks - thats cleared that up after all these years. I think a lot of people suspected that they all went through the same, whether 1st or 2nd.
Seems a bit inefficient putting the 2nd to one side for a day. Still, product differentiation and all that. For the extra time it takes it'd be as well to send them through all the same (1st and 2nd), if you see what I mean.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

11 Sep 2017, 21:54

I've noticed many Second Class packets, stamped and horizon labelled, that are delivered the next day so it looks as if Mail Centres can't be bothered to segregate the packets. :cuppa

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

19 Sep 2017, 17:24

A year ago last January, I was at a meeting at the Mechanics Institute, in Manchester. All the big boys from the union were there, except Dave Ward. We were told that during a meeting with Moya Greene, she mentioned losing a days delivery. The union had told her to keep her hands off Saturdays, to which she replied, "who said anything about Saturdays?"
Tbh, I can see it coming. I really believe that CWU made a huge mistake when we went to 5 day working, in its current form. Together with CMA they should have approached RM and lobbied government to scale back Saturdays. We could be doing parcels and specials, and a limited amount of prep. Hours taken form that day could have been put on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. It is too late now. Back then we didn't have to defend as many jobs. With the internet, things have changed and it will be the demise of a vast percentage of the mail we deliver. This, I feel, will lead to many jobs going.

Are we on a road to devalue the company to force a change in the USO?

19 Sep 2017, 19:09

heapsy wrote:A year ago last January, I was at a meeting at the Mechanics Institute, in Manchester. All the big boys from the union were there, except Dave Ward. We were told that during a meeting with Moya Greene, she mentioned losing a days delivery. The union had told her to keep her hands off Saturdays, to which she replied, "who said anything about Saturdays?"
Tbh, I can see it coming. I really believe that CWU made a huge mistake when we went to 5 day working, in its current form. Together with CMA they should have approached RM and lobbied government to scale back Saturdays. We could be doing parcels and specials, and a limited amount of prep. Hours taken form that day could have been put on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. It is too late now. Back then we didn't have to defend as many jobs. With the internet, things have changed and it will be the demise of a vast percentage of the mail we deliver. This, I feel, will lead to many jobs going.

By "The union had told her to keep her hands off Saturdays" are you saying that the CWU suggested RM could give up delivering one weekday but not give up Saturday deliveries ? :shock:

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