WTLL

[Drunk]

Just a quick question,

Is it set in stone, ie company policy that we have to sign for all Health and Safety work time learning briefings.

[andy2007]

Why?
Is there something in a H&S WTLL, that you don't want to sign for?
If so. I suggest you bring it up with your H&S Rep, so he/she can try to do something about it.

As for signing for these things. Yes. It is compulsary, for you to sign for it. So that they can prove that you've been told about that particular issue. Although I'm not sure whether you have to do so, there and then. Or whether you can cunsult with your H&S rep first. Hopefully, someone else can clear up that bit for you.

[Ahebban]

Irrespective of whether you agree with a particular issue at the WTLL you do need to sign the sheet as having been present at the session. WTLL sessions are not voting forums, they are for the imparting and discussion of information only, so signing the sheet does not commit you to any demand, ultimatum or proposal put forward at the WTLL. Any issues arising that conflict with National/Local Agreements or require further debate before implementation, can be presented to Union and/or H&S reps for further examination and meetings with DOM to sort out any difficulties arising.

[jockstrapp]

What's a work time learning????????????????????????????????????

[DGP1]

What's a work time learning????????????????????????????????????

It's that 30 minutes each week that the DOMs now use for lapsing

[andy2007]

What's a work time learning????????????????????????????????????

It's that 30 minutes each week that the DOMs now use for lapsing

Then they're failing to follow procedure, and if you wanted to. You could put a complaint in, and cause a lot of trouble for them.

[thehappyones]

sign to say you have been at the wtll dont put your pay number in and aslong as youre there you dont have to participate remember the onion went court over wtll and lost

[Drunk]

The reason i asked is, we had a case where signing for WTLL H&S was used in a conduct case which lead the the dismisal of a member of staff who had injured himself whilst emptying a box.

As far as i can see there is nothing in the Health and Safety at work act to say we have to sign, it only say that we have to
(a) To take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and others who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work.
(b) To co-operate with his employer or any other person, so far as is necessary, to enable his employer or other person to perform or comply with any requirement or duty imposed under a relevant statutory provision.

The way i take co-operation is to attend and listen, not to sign a document.

I have spoken with HSE and have been told that we dont need to sign unless it is in our terms and conditions of employment.

[andy2007]

The reason i asked is, we had a case where signing for WTLL H&S was used in a conduct case which lead the the dismisal of a member of staff who had injured himself whilst emptying a box.

As far as i can see there is nothing in the Health and Safety at work act to say we have to sign, it only say that we have to
(a) To take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and others who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work.
(b) To co-operate with his employer or any other person, so far as is necessary, to enable his employer or other person to perform or comply with any requirement or duty imposed under a relevant statutory provision.
That's why they insist on you signing, to confirm that you've recieved the information. It's so that RM can prove that they've provided us with Safe Systems Of Work (SSOW). Otherwise, we could deny ever being told about them.

The way i take co-operation is to attend and listen, not to sign a document.

I have spoken with HSE and have been told that we dont need to sign unless it is in our terms and conditions of employment.

And they're right: You aren't under any legal obligation to sign it. But it is the RM Rules, so that they can prove they've issued you with SSOWs, and any other important H&S information. Presumably, that's what they got your Collegue for (breaching SSOW).

But if you have a problem with something in it. For example: It's simply not practical to do something in the way it says you should (e.g. no scales provided, to weigh the bags from the Mailboxes, before lifting them), for whatever reason. Then you should get your H&S Rep involved. There are usually compromises that you can come to. For example, requiring them to provide appropriate equipment. Or failing that: Testing the weight, by carefully trying to lift it, before actually lifting it out.

Obviously, I don't know what happened to your Collegue. I'm just making an assumption, based on accidents that used to happen in the Segs. When people unwittingly, lifted overweight bags. And then Managers trying to blame them for not checking the weight first. Now most people do check suspected overweight bags (based on experience). Although it slows things down noticably (and sometimes leads to accusations of taking the p**s!).