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Benefit illustration

07 Oct 2019, 21:21

Where is this years? Only goes up to 31 March 2019 when it arrives. Come on service centre this shouldn’t take over 6 months to produce.

Benefit illustration

08 Oct 2019, 08:54

red666bear wrote:Where is this years? Only goes up to 31 March 2019 when it arrives. Come on service centre this shouldn’t take over 6 months to produce.


This years financial year doesn't finish until 31 March 2020 so you have the latest figures. We always get the previous years illustration in Sept/Oct.

Benefit illustration

08 Oct 2019, 14:16

red666bear wrote:Where is this years? Only goes up to 31 March 2019 when it arrives. Come on service centre this shouldn’t take over 6 months to produce.

It says in the Courier they'll be with us in 'early October', so it should be soon.

But we did used to get them earlier!

Benefit illustration

15 Oct 2019, 16:47

I am right in thinking that the lump sum is in addition to the total pension? For example mine says total lump sum is £33578 and total pension £11194. Talking in the canteen and a couple of posties say different.
To me it is basic stuff but just want to be sure.

Benefit illustration

15 Oct 2019, 16:54

antcpfc wrote:I am right in thinking that the lump sum is in addition to the total pension? For example mine says total lump sum is £33578 and total pension £11194. Talking in the canteen and a couple of posties say different.
To me it is basic stuff but just want to be sure.

Depends which section you're in!

If you're in B you get a lump sum as standard.
If you're in C you don't but you have the choice to give up some pension to get one.
Although the DBCBS is designed to provide a lump sum, which is likely to benefit section C members.

Benefit illustration

15 Oct 2019, 17:17

RobertT wrote:
antcpfc wrote:I am right in thinking that the lump sum is in addition to the total pension? For example mine says total lump sum is £33578 and total pension £11194. Talking in the canteen and a couple of posties say different.
To me it is basic stuff but just want to be sure.

Depends which section you're in!

If you're in B you get a lump sum as standard.
If you're in C you don't but you have the choice to give up some pension to get one.
Although the DBCBS is designed to provide a lump sum, which is likely to benefit section C members.


Thanks I am in sectionl A/B if that helps.

Benefit illustration

22 Oct 2019, 10:01

antcpfc wrote:
RobertT wrote:
antcpfc wrote:I am right in thinking that the lump sum is in addition to the total pension? For example mine says total lump sum is £33578 and total pension £11194. Talking in the canteen and a couple of posties say different.
To me it is basic stuff but just want to be sure.

Depends which section you're in!

If you're in B you get a lump sum as standard.
If you're in C you don't but you have the choice to give up some pension to get one.
Although the DBCBS is designed to provide a lump sum, which is likely to benefit section C members.


Thanks I am in sectionl A/B if that helps.


Section A/B is the same as me so the lump sum will be included in your illustration. You will also have the option to increase your lump sum to 25% of your total pot and it is all tax free as well.

Benefit illustration

22 Oct 2019, 13:36

But bear in mind the DBCBS will only provide a lump sum attached to your RMPP(1/4/2012 to 31/3/2018) benefits. So if the DBCBS is larger than 25% of those benefits, you will pay tax on anything over.

RM did ask government to link it to the RMSPS(up to 31/3/2012) benefits as well, but they said no!

In practice the longer the DBCBS is in operation for, the more likely you are to pay tax on some of your DBCBS pot.

Benefit illustration

22 Oct 2019, 16:22

Steve_claret wrote:
antcpfc wrote:
RobertT wrote:
antcpfc wrote:I am right in thinking that the lump sum is in addition to the total pension? For example mine says total lump sum is £33578 and total pension £11194. Talking in the canteen and a couple of posties say different.
To me it is basic stuff but just want to be sure.

Depends which section you're in!

If you're in B you get a lump sum as standard.
If you're in C you don't but you have the choice to give up some pension to get one.
Although the DBCBS is designed to provide a lump sum, which is likely to benefit section C members.


Thanks I am in sectionl A/B if that helps.


Section A/B is the same as me so the lump sum will be included in your illustration. You will also have the option to increase your lump sum to 25% of your total pot and it is all tax free as well.

Thanks. How would I know what my total pension pot is? Sorry for the questions but I am completely ignorant when it comes to pensions. :sad:

Benefit illustration

22 Oct 2019, 16:27

antcpfc wrote:
Steve_claret wrote:
antcpfc wrote:
RobertT wrote:
antcpfc wrote:I am right in thinking that the lump sum is in addition to the total pension? For example mine says total lump sum is £33578 and total pension £11194. Talking in the canteen and a couple of posties say different.
To me it is basic stuff but just want to be sure.

Depends which section you're in!

If you're in B you get a lump sum as standard.
If you're in C you don't but you have the choice to give up some pension to get one.
Although the DBCBS is designed to provide a lump sum, which is likely to benefit section C members.


Thanks I am in sectionl A/B if that helps.


Section A/B is the same as me so the lump sum will be included in your illustration. You will also have the option to increase your lump sum to 25% of your total pot and it is all tax free as well.

Thanks. How would I know what my total pension pot is? Sorry for the questions but I am completely ignorant when it comes to pensions. :sad:

pension x 20 + standard lump sum(section A/B) + DBCBS + AVC's = total pot value.

More info is in your plan guide!

Benefit illustration

23 Oct 2019, 14:42

RobertT wrote:
antcpfc wrote:
Steve_claret wrote:
antcpfc wrote:
RobertT wrote:
antcpfc wrote:I am right in thinking that the lump sum is in addition to the total pension? For example mine says total lump sum is £33578 and total pension £11194. Talking in the canteen and a couple of posties say different.
To me it is basic stuff but just want to be sure.

Depends which section you're in!

If you're in B you get a lump sum as standard.
If you're in C you don't but you have the choice to give up some pension to get one.
Although the DBCBS is designed to provide a lump sum, which is likely to benefit section C members.


Thanks I am in sectionl A/B if that helps.


Section A/B is the same as me so the lump sum will be included in your illustration. You will also have the option to increase your lump sum to 25% of your total pot and it is all tax free as well.

Thanks. How would I know what my total pension pot is? Sorry for the questions but I am completely ignorant when it comes to pensions. :sad:

pension x 20 + standard lump sum(section A/B) + DBCBS + AVC's = total pot value.

More info is in your plan guide!

Thank you. :thumbup

Benefit illustration

14 Nov 2019, 20:45

Finally got my pension illustration today.

I have taken my NRA 60 pension and therefore only have one pension on my illustration.

Final salary pension at 31st March 2019 £0
CSDB Revalued Pension block £5000 (approx)

Is this the amount if I take this now or when Im 65.

Also If I do take this now do I lose 5% per year from this total.

Many thanks as always.

Benefit illustration

14 Nov 2019, 21:25

Also the amount of cash balance fund cash sum, is that a total if taken now or what you would get if you take it when its due.

i.e. Will this figure be reduced ?

Benefit illustration

15 Nov 2019, 01:43

The £5000 is what you have built up to the end of March 19, it is not a forecast. The cash balance fund can only be taken when you take your nra 60 or nra 65 benefits. It cannot be taken separately. Due to a recent ruling by the government the nra for the cash balance fund is 65 so if you took it early it would be reduced. The exact % I don’t know but would assume it would be the 5% per year as with your other nra 65 entitlements.
I interpret the workings out slight differently to RobertT in that the cash balance fund replaces part of your lump sum but does not increase the lump sum in any way. It has the effect of increasing your yearly pension in section B. The usually accept divider/multiplier for the pension pot is 20.
So for example, if your nra 65 pension is £3000 with a lump sum of £9000 retiring at nra. The total pension pot would be £69000 ((20 x 3000)+ 9000) of which you can take a maximum of 25% tax free which would be £17250 leaving £51750 pension pot to which is added the £5000 to give £56750.... this is then divided by 20 to give a yearly pension £2837.50.
The long and short of it being that the cash balance fund would give you an increase of £250 per year to £3250 if you didn’t take the maximum lump sum or mitigate the reduction in your yearly pension by £250 if you did take the maximum lump sum.
I would be interested to hear RobertT opinion on the above as this is just my ramblings on the subject and he has far more knowledge on the matter than me.

Benefit illustration

15 Nov 2019, 16:42

Hawkey99 wrote:Finally got my pension illustration today.

I have taken my NRA 60 pension and therefore only have one pension on my illustration.

Final salary pension at 31st March 2019 £0
CSDB Revalued Pension block £5000 (approx)

Is this the amount if I take this now or when Im 65.

Also If I do take this now do I lose 5% per year from this total.

Many thanks as always.

Hawkey99 wrote:Also the amount of cash balance fund cash sum, is that a total if taken now or what you would get if you take it when its due.

i.e. Will this figure be reduced ?

When you took your NRA60, you took all of your final salary pension plus the first 2 years of the CSDB pension.

Therefore the CSDB figure is essentially your NRA65, which is pension you accrued from 1st April 2010 to 31st March 2018. It's just going up with inflation from that date onwards. If you take it before 65 it will be reduced by 5% per year.

The cash balance is to fund your lump sum when taking your NRA65 benefits, that too will be reduced if taken earlier. They have to be taken at the same time!

Benefit illustration

15 Nov 2019, 16:48

renrag40 wrote:The £5000 is what you have built up to the end of March 19, it is not a forecast. The cash balance fund can only be taken when you take your nra 60 or nra 65 benefits. It cannot be taken separately. Due to a recent ruling by the government the nra for the cash balance fund is 65 so if you took it early it would be reduced. The exact % I don’t know but would assume it would be the 5% per year as with your other nra 65 entitlements.
I interpret the workings out slight differently to RobertT in that the cash balance fund replaces part of your lump sum but does not increase the lump sum in any way. It has the effect of increasing your yearly pension in section B. The usually accept divider/multiplier for the pension pot is 20.
So for example, if your nra 65 pension is £3000 with a lump sum of £9000 retiring at nra. The total pension pot would be £69000 ((20 x 3000)+ 9000) of which you can take a maximum of 25% tax free which would be £17250 leaving £51750 pension pot to which is added the £5000 to give £56750.... this is then divided by 20 to give a yearly pension £2837.50.
The long and short of it being that the cash balance fund would give you an increase of £250 per year to £3250 if you didn’t take the maximum lump sum or mitigate the reduction in your yearly pension by £250 if you did take the maximum lump sum.
I would be interested to hear RobertT opinion on the above as this is just my ramblings on the subject and he has far more knowledge on the matter than me.

The way to work out the 'pot value' of your section B NRA65 pension is:

Pension x20 + standard lump sum + cash balance + AVC's(if applicable)

So if you have a pension of £3,000, standard lump sum of £9,000 and cash balance of £5,000, the pot value would be £74,000. Which in turn would provide a maximum tax free lump sum of £18,500 and a reduced pension of £2,775.

Page 12 of your plan guide will confirm.

But you also need to bear in mind that the cash balance is only 'attached' to pension accrued between 2012 and 2018.
So if it equals more than 25% of that part of your pension(which for section B will include some standard lump sum), then you can:

1. take some or all of your cash balance as taxable cash; or
2. reduce your standard lump sum to provide more pension

Although this is all fairly irrelevant to Hawkey99 as I think he's in section C, as are most other employee members of the RMPP.
Last edited by RobertT on 15 Nov 2019, 20:04, edited 1 time in total.

Benefit illustration

15 Nov 2019, 19:28

Thanks Robert,

Yes Im section C

How does the £5000 per year pension increase. Is it just the RPI rate each year but reduced by 5% if taken early.

Also I assume everything Im paying in now just goes towards the lump sum until the new scheme comes in.

Benefit illustration

15 Nov 2019, 20:03

Your NRA65 benefits will increase by RPI each year, up to a maximum of 5%. But it will be reduced by 5% for each year you take it before 65.
The cash balance will also be reduced but the percentage isn't known, at least not by me. But 5% per year for that is probably a reasonable guess.

Your weekly contributions are currently going into the cash balance scheme. But, as it's only linked to your 2012-2018 pension, the longer that scheme is in place, the more likely we are to pay tax on some of it.

Benefit illustration

15 Nov 2019, 20:30

I got my deferred pension statement recently after IHR in September and I asked about taking my DBCBS amount as a lump sum and the RM pension helpline people wrote back saying that I could take the DBCBS as a tax free lump sum if I claimed when taking my NRA60 benefits on my 60th birthday. I was in section c

Benefit illustration

15 Nov 2019, 20:38

There does seem to be some confusion about this!

The original idea was that the DBCBS would be linked to all our pension and could be taken along with either NRA60 or NRA65. But RM needed Cabinet Office approval for it to be linked to our pre 2012 RMSPS benefits. That's the part the government pays!

A few months ago we received a letter saying that approval had been refused and it could only be linked to our 2012-2018 benefits.

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