Royal Mail pension news and discussion.Please note the advise given in this forum is unofficial, please use the links we have for a more detailed response or see an independent financial adviser.
2old4this wrote:All I really wanted to know is is the money we've paid in pre 2012 still going to be paid out at the rate we were told.
Getting a simple yes or no has more more confused then ever.
Changes to pension scheme can't be retrospective, so all accrued benefits are safe.
Thats what I thought. It was Dingo got me worrying when he posted I had it wrong. As long as what I've paid in for the last 35 odd years is going to be paid out as I was promised for all those years I'm OK with hanging on till I'm 60.
I think it would help if the union was more clued up on this though. There's a lot more like me worked 30 or more years on delivery worrying about what the hells going on.
2old4this wrote:I think it would help if the union was more clued up on this though. There's a lot more like me worked 30 or more years on delivery worrying about what the hells going on.
I agree, although the info from RM isn't exactly clear either. I've watched the video too and it seems to me that John Millage is just saying, virtually word for word, what was written in the letter we all recieved. What help is that supposed to be!
2old4this wrote:I agree, although the info from RM isn't exactly clear either. I've watched the video too and it seems to me that John Millage is just saying, virtually word for word, what was written in the letter we all recieved. What help is that supposed to be!
[Glad to be of some help.
And them he said it twice and that was after the woman interviewing him had already said it as well! Still at least we got " comfort" from it!!
obviously taking your pension early or not is a personal decision,and people say i dont want to take a % deduction,but i took my pension at 52 and come 60 will have had around £25,000 plus cpi rises,and im happy with that,i could have waited till 60 ,but taking my pension gave me the opportunity to cut my hours and only work a three day a week,it,s up to the individual ,and your circumstances.
Look the fact is that Royal Mail believe that they cannot fund the final salary link to all pensions from pre 2008 and want to replace it with RPI with a cap of 5% , now this may not effect OPGs in the long run unless wages increase above RPI or if the RPI is regularly over 5%. Clearly it will impact on managers more who have promotion and signicant salary increases.
However the fact is that when the business was seeking European state aid they never informed us or anyone that they were going to change the formula and what's more create a pension surplus which will fund their pension contributions moving forward quite an outrageous move.
In addition they are only willing to guarantee this for 5 years starting from 2014.
The cwu have rejected this new pension attack. It will inevitably lead to a industrial action ballot.
By the way it is expected that Royal Mail will announce the legal consultation on the 14th June .
agree with Dingo , this is another underhand attack on our terms and conditions. you only start to get interested in pensions when you reach the age of 50 + and considering our pensions are basically deferred wages it beggars belief how they can manipulate our pensions to benefit themselves. this creates a lot of stress on people nearing the age of 55 , should I take it, should I leave it ? - many people that have worked over 30 years for this company. most people at our place that have reached 55 in the last year or two have taken their pension early .
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
dingo wrote:However the fact is that when the business was seeking European state aid they never informed us or anyone that they were going to change the formula
I'm not on RM's side here, but there's nothing to say they had to!
and what's more create a pension surplus which will fund their pension contributions moving forward quite an outrageous move.
So are you saying you'd rather the scheme be in deficit?
If you look at the figures, they say that they've got £2 Billion tucked away that they're going to dip into at a rate of £300 Million per year. But at that rate it's only going to last about 6.5 years, which is probably where the 5 year guarantee comes in.
I'm obviously not in favour of any reduction in pay, pensions or terms & conditions and it's the job of the union to negotiate the best deal for it's members. But ultimately if the Royal Mail want to reduce our pension benefits in the future they can.
I am hopefully meeting with Jon Millidge next week, when he is at our office. I hope to ask him some questions to try and clear up my confusion, I am also going to point our that 5 year promises are no basis for pension planning.
taxi4leighton wrote:anyone remember robert maxwell
and what he done with a pension fund
Yes, he stole £Millions from his companies pension funds to save those companies from bankruptcy. RM propose to use up money they've already contributed to keep our pension afloat. Not quite the same.
taxi4leighton wrote:anyone remember robert maxwell
and what he done with a pension fund
Yes, he stole £Millions from his companies pension funds to save those companies from bankruptcy. RM propose to use up money they've already contributed to keep our pension afloat. Not quite the same.
Oh yes, remember him well. My dad and mum are now much poorer pensioners thanks to him.
taxi4leighton wrote:anyone remember robert maxwell
and what he done with a pension fund
Yes, he stole £Millions from his companies pension funds to save those companies from bankruptcy. RM propose to use up money they've already contributed to keep our pension afloat. Not quite the same.
stealing is stealing whichever way you want to dress it up
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
I totally agree with Dingo on this issue. Our very valuable pension benefits are being gradually eroded bit by bit, despite reassurances by RM that after each change the funding is healthy.
I predict that within 5 years of privatisation the career average scheme will be closed and replaced with a new defined contribution scheme with Royal Mail generously offering to match or slightly exceed the employee's contribution. We will probably still pay 6% and they may pay 8% - securing a 9% reduction on RM's contribution rate and thus more profits to distribute by way of a dividend to shareholders.
We have CWU representation with Directors on the Board of Trustees and I am sure that they will delve into the detail of the actuarial and accounting valuations used to determine how the surplus of £2.2billion was calculated and how it was intended to be used in the future. I simply do not believe that funding of our RM pensions post 1 April 2012 was not discussed as part of the European State Aid application and subsequent division of assets and liabilities by the Government. I am sure the CWU's professional advisers will obtain and trawl through the necessary
documents to get at the truth.
When the mist has cleared on 14 June - we should get to know exactly what they are up to !
The European State Aid deal with the Government left 2 billion pounds in the pension fund to cover the link to the final salary. This was based on the assumption that it would be RPI plus 1% . Royal Mail's proposal is to change it to just RPi , doing this will then free up the majority of the 2 billion allocated by the EU state aid deal as a surplus and then this surplus would pay for Royal Mail's pension contributions moving forward. Moreover the surplus makes it pretty attractive to private investors.
Regardless of what some indivduals are saying this is a pension robbery and con.
The CWU have rejected Royal Mail's proposal at a meeting on Wednesday with Moya and milledge and are asking our lawyers to challenge both the government and Royal Mail regarding the state aid deal.
This moves us closer to an industrial action ballot !
dingo wrote:The European State Aid deal with the Government left 2 billion pounds in the pension fund to cover the link to the final salary. This was based on the assumption that it would be RPI plus 1% . Royal Mail's proposal is to change it to just RPi , doing this will then free up the majority of the 2 billion allocated by the EU state aid deal as a surplus and then this surplus would pay for Royal Mail's pension contributions moving forward. Moreover the surplus makes it pretty attractive to private investors.
Regardless of what some indivduals are saying this is a pension robbery and con.
The CWU have rejected Royal Mail's proposal at a meeting on Wednesday with Moya and milledge and are asking our lawyers to challenge both the government and Royal Mail regarding the state aid deal.
This moves us closer to an industrial action ballot !
One thing I am unsure about, the final salary part of our pension..will that still be calculated on an improved basis as our wage increases? Ie if we get a pay rise will we get 1/80 of that on top of an RPI rise?
