mail centre revisions and the mtsf

[swashy]

My mail centre is currently in the process of agreeing a duty revision. The Managing the surplus framework is being utilised and the criteria for seniority is pensionable allowances not length of service. This means that someone with less service but more allowances has preference of duty pick. Many senior postmen now find themselves in the position that they may be displaced and become surplus. The most annoying aspect is that those people who crossed picket lines are major beneficiaries. Mail centre staff beware!

[banddy]

My mail centre is currently in the process of agreeing a duty revision. The Managing the surplus framework is being utilised and the criteria for seniority is pensionable allowances not length of service. This means that someone with less service but more allowances has preference of duty pick. Many senior postmen now find themselves in the position that they may be displaced and become surplus. The most annoying aspect is that those people who crossed picket lines are major beneficiaries. Mail centre staff beware!

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pardon?

surely seniority is based on length of service. otherwise...what if someone wasn't in the pension scheme (they had their own)?

have you written to ask your rep?
have you attended branch(unit) meetings to raise the issue?

[oggie]

My mail centre is currently in the process of agreeing a duty revision. The Managing the surplus framework is being utilised and the criteria for seniority is pensionable allowances not length of service. This means that someone with less service but more allowances has preference of duty pick. Many senior postmen now find themselves in the position that they may be displaced and become surplus. The most annoying aspect is that those people who crossed picket lines are major beneficiaries. Mail centre staff beware!

what a load of of crap you are talking

[hol]

Do not be quick to dismiss this as I can asure you it is 100% true, The same thing is happening where I work and m.t.s.f supercedes any form of senoirity. Evedently we all signed uptp this in 2005, not that I remember but we did. Under the protection of pay seniority goes by how much you have earned in allowances over the last 3 years. This will be the way revisions and re-signs will go everywhere for the forseeable future. Very badly thought out in my opinion as it basically kisses goodbye to seniority. In our office we are just waiting for the all new seniority list to come from HR and see who wins and who loses under this old but new system.

Be aware as it will come to your office eventually. It will be used in all re-signs in the future under m.t.s.f. as there is bound to be surplus staff in any office where revisions are concerned.

[hubbahubba]

Do not be quick to dismiss this as I can asure you it is 100% true, The same thing is happening where I work and m.t.s.f supercedes any form of senoirity. Evedently we all signed uptp this in 2005, not that I remember but we did. Under the protection of pay seniority goes by how much you have earned in allowances over the last 3 years. This will be the way revisions and re-signs will go everywhere for the forseeable future. Very badly thought out in my opinion as it basically kisses goodbye to seniority. In our office we are just waiting for the all new seniority list to come from HR and see who wins and who loses under this old but new system.

Be aware as it will come to your office eventually. It will be used in all re-signs in the future under m.t.s.f. as there is bound to be surplus staff in any office where revisions are concerned.

Dingo,the truth,or anybody else with a good level of how the MTSF system works care to confirm/deny this?

[swashy]

Let me assure you that this is 100% true. There is some good news though all of our processing rep's transferred themselves to a twilight shift about 9 months ago thus incurring full NDA and maintained their TPM allowance even though they didn't operate a machine. This was done through a back door deal on a trial basis giving them the option to return to their original shift (earlies). Hey presto they jump to the top of the seniority pick under MTSF. COINCIDENCE?
If any of your rep's do similar you will know a revision is coming your way.
The criteria used for seniority under MTSF is Shift allowance, TPM and Sunday premium. You will be placed into pools or groups on shift and pick according to earned allowances over last 3 years. Still think I'm talking crap?

[hubbahubba]

Let me assure you that this is 100% true. There is some good news though all of our processing rep's transferred themselves to a twilight shift about 9 months ago thus incurring full NDA and maintained their TPM allowance even though they didn't operate a machine. This was done through a back door deal on a trial basis giving them the option to return to their original shift (earlies). Hey presto they jump to the top of the seniority pick under MTSF. COINCIDENCE?
If any of your rep's do similar you will know a revision is coming your way.
The criteria used for seniority under MTSF is Shift allowance, TPM and Sunday premium. You will be placed into pools or groups on shift and pick according to earned allowances over last 3 years. Still think I'm talking crap?

so a mech operator with tpm,whos been in 3yrs,goes before a manual man with 25yrs???sounds like bollox if true,knowing RM thats a yes then?

[swashy]

It's quite technical but about saving money if the guy with 3yrs seniority receives £20 in allowances and the guy with 25yrs receives £12 the guy with the higher allowances comes first under the pay protection element of MTSF. It costs R.M less to displace the guy with less allowances. This has always been the case under MTSF it's just hardly been used before. Business Transformation and all that.

[oggie]

It's quite technical but about saving money if the guy with 3yrs seniority receives £20 in allowances and the guy with 25yrs receives £12 the guy with the higher allowances comes first under the pay protection element of MTSF. It costs R.M less to displace the guy with less allowances. This has always been the case under MTSF it's just hardly been used before. Business Transformation and all that.

right i know what your on about now, it means that say 6 people lost their duty on nights and there was a repick of duties, the repick would be done on seniority (length of service),but if it meant that when it got down to say the last 2 night duties and there was still 2 people left who lost there duty,then the last 2 duties would be held back for them to pick with their seniority. but if they did not like the night duties left and picked a late, then they would lose their pay protection. so it could mean the last 2 could pick up night leave reserves.

[swashy]

not quite right oggie. You've forgotten about pools/groups it all depends on your allowances. A mech' person on nights receiving TPM would have a different allowance to a manual operator on nights (TPM), therefore different pools. The fun part starts for those people who end up within the surplus i.e no duty to pick within their pool.
Haven't got to that bit yet, tell you more later.

[swashy]

It's quite technical but about saving money if the guy with 3yrs seniority receives £20 in allowances and the guy with 25yrs receives £12 the guy with the higher allowances comes first under the pay protection element of MTSF. It costs R.M less to displace the guy with less allowances. This has always been the case under MTSF it's just hardly been used before. Business Transformation and all that.

right i know what your on about now, it means that say 6 people lost their duty on nights and there was a repick of duties, the repick would be done on seniority (length of service),but if it meant that when it got down to say the last 2 night duties and there was still 2 people left who lost there duty,then the last 2 duties would be held back for them to pick with their seniority. but if they did not like the night duties left and picked a late, then they would lose their pay protection. so it could mean the last 2 could pick up night leave reserves.

You've got to forget seniority (length of service) doesn't matter under these rules only allowances.

[oggie]

so if i was a machine operator on nights with say 20 years seniority, and another operator with 19 years seniority doing the same job and getting the same allowances lost his duty. on a resign that would not mean they would get 2 pick 1st?

[oggie]

Let me assure you that this is 100% true. There is some good news though all of our processing rep's transferred themselves to a twilight shift about 9 months ago thus incurring full NDA and maintained their TPM allowance even though they didn't operate a machine. This was done through a back door deal on a trial basis giving them the option to return to their original shift (earlies). Hey presto they jump to the top of the seniority pick under MTSF. COINCIDENCE?
If any of your rep's do similar you will know a revision is coming your way.
The criteria used for seniority under MTSF is Shift allowance, TPM and Sunday premium. You will be placed into pools or groups on shift and pick according to earned allowances over last 3 years. Still think I'm talking crap?

so a mech operator with tpm,whos been in 3yrs,goes before a manual man with 25yrs???sounds like bollox if true,knowing RM thats a yes then?

from my understanding you have to be in the duty for 1 year to get pay protection under the mtsf.

[swashy]

so if i was a machine operator on nights with say 20 years seniority, and another operator with 19 years seniority doing the same job and getting the same allowances lost his duty. on a resign that would not mean they would get 2 pick 1st?

forget length of service - think allowances - in your scenario you are right PROVIDING you are on the same allowances. The problem occurs when the senior man has more years but less allowances for instance if the less senior man had previously or presently worked a Sunday night for instance, which attracted an extra premium. It's all about the allowances TPM, SHIFT ALLOWANCE AND SUNDAY PREMIUM OVER THE LAST 3 YRS and the pool or group/shift your in.

[swashy]

Let me assure you that this is 100% true. There is some good news though all of our processing rep's transferred themselves to a twilight shift about 9 months ago thus incurring full NDA and maintained their TPM allowance even though they didn't operate a machine. This was done through a back door deal on a trial basis giving them the option to return to their original shift (earlies). Hey presto they jump to the top of the seniority pick under MTSF. COINCIDENCE?
If any of your rep's do similar you will know a revision is coming your way.
The criteria used for seniority under MTSF is Shift allowance, TPM and Sunday premium. You will be placed into pools or groups on shift and pick according to earned allowances over last 3 years. Still think I'm talking crap?

so a mech operator with tpm,whos been in 3yrs,goes before a manual man with 25yrs???sounds like bollox if true,knowing RM thats a yes then?

from my understanding you have to be in the duty for 1 year to get pay protection under the mtsf.

Not sure that's accurate I think 6 months equates to 17 weeks pay protection but will know more tomorrow.