European union ruling

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 08 Nov 2007, 14:41

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7081263.stm

Unions will be given the right to expel members for belonging to a political party under proposed new laws.

It comes after train drivers union Aslef defeated the UK government in the European Court of Human Rights over the expulsion of a member of the BNP.

The UK government argued the union could not exclude someone for belonging to a legitimate political organisation.

But the European court said Aslef had the right to expel members whose views were incompatible with its stated aims.

The case centred around Virgin train driver Jay Lee, who was expelled by Aslef after standing unsuccessfully as a BNP candidate in 2002.

Mr Lee won the right to remain a member of Aslef at two employment tribunals, which both said that a union could expel someone because of their conduct, but not because they were a member of a particular political party.

But the European Court over-ruled the tribunals, saying Mr Lee would not suffer financially as a result of being expelled, as Aslef did not operate a closed shop and he was free to join another union.

In background documents issued with the Queen's Speech, the government said its new Employment Bill would amend trade union membership laws "in the light of the European court judgement in Aslef v UK".

Under proposed new legislation, unions will be able to "expel members on the basis of their membership of a political party," it added.

Post by **evilc** » 08 Nov 2007, 15:23

amma fairman wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7081263.stm

Dont want to get political, this aint really the place, and i know some are a bit touchy about this, but im probably one of many posties on here, who are members of, and support the wrong political party.

Im very much a union man, much more so than most people in my branch, and i cant believe i could be chucked out just because i am a supporter of the wrong kind of political group.

Ah well, could be 3 quid a week better off i suppose!

Well my opinion is that if you are a member of the bnp, the sooner the cwu kick you out the better.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 08 Nov 2007, 15:46

I don't agree with the decision of the European Court. I do not agree with the aims of the BNP or other extremist groups either.

There is though a danger here of setting a precedent that could affect members rights in all unions. I don't want to go as far as suggesting there is a "book burning" syndrome here and if the ruling was specific to being a member of the BNP then that should suffice. What it does say is

"But the European court said Aslef had the right to expel members whose views were incompatible with its stated aims"

- for me that is a little too far because the stated aims of a union may not necessarily reflect the views of a goodly number of members, political or otherwise. Even more worrying is the fact that the Labour Government is about to change the law.

EJL · Post by **EJL** » 08 Nov 2007, 15:50

"The UK government argued the union could not exclude someone for belonging to a legitimate political organisation.

But the European court said Aslef had the right to expel members whose views were incompatible with its stated aims."

That's CWU Labour Party members out for a start?

Come to think of it, is there any political organisation with compatible views to ours?

Militant Jack · Post by **Militant Jack** » 08 Nov 2007, 16:10

Pity strike breakers can not be kicked out of the union as well as members of the BNP
in my book they are just as deplorable. Mind you this Goverment treats
our union and other united work forces with total contempt.
We the membership should have the only say in who can and cannot be
a member of the CWU and not BROWN or his Goverment.
Protection for strike breakers should end now.

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 08 Nov 2007, 16:18

Militant Jack wrote:Pity strike breakers can not be kicked out of the union as well as members of the BNP
in my book they are just as deplorable. Mind you this Goverment treats
our union and other united work forces with total contempt.
We the membership should have the only say in who can and cannot be
a member of the CWU and not BROWN or his Goverment.
Protection for strike breakers should end now.

I couldn't argue with any of that. Get rid of strike breakers now!

Shrek · Post by **Shrek** » 08 Nov 2007, 16:32

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
Militant Jack wrote:Pity strike breakers can not be kicked out of the union as well as members of the BNP
in my book they are just as deplorable. Mind you this Goverment treats
our union and other united work forces with total contempt.
We the membership should have the only say in who can and cannot be
a member of the CWU and not BROWN or his Goverment.
Protection for strike breakers should end now.
I couldn't argue with any of that. Get rid of strike breakers now!

strike breakers did go against the stated aims of the union so surely they can be expelled

brothermagrew · Post by **brothermagrew** » 08 Nov 2007, 17:15

Sorr shrek as I entirely agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments but the definitive answer is NO they CANT be expelled.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 08 Nov 2007, 17:23

brothermagrew wrote:Sorr shrek as I entirely agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments but the definitive answer is NO they CANT be expelled.

It does not mean you have to support/strike for them I FOR ONE WILL NEVER GO ON STRIKE FOR ANY SCAB.

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 08 Nov 2007, 17:37

k979aaa wrote:
brothermagrew wrote:Sorr shrek as I entirely agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments but the definitive answer is NO they CANT be expelled.
It does not mean you have to support/strike for them I FOR ONE WILL NEVER GO ON STRIKE FOR ANY SCAB.

And no rep should ever defend one. They've made their choice and decided which side they are on, and it isn't the side of the workers.

strangler · Post by **strangler** » 08 Nov 2007, 18:17

amma fairman wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7081263.stm

Dont want to get political, this aint really the place, and i know some are a bit touchy about this, but im probably one of many posties on here, who are members of, and support the wrong political party.

Im very much a union man, much more so than most people in my branch, and i cant believe i could be chucked out just because i am a supporter of the wrong kind of political group.

Ah well, could be 3 quid a week better off i suppose!

Now this is something I feel very strongly about. I wrote to the union rag 'The Voice' (that`s a laugh). I`m also rather curious as to how the CWU finds out if you`re a member of a political party.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... highlight=

I emailed Dave Ward the following some weeks ago. No answer yet..

"Dear Dave,
As a member of the CWU for many years, I would be grateful if you could give me some answers to the following questions:

How it is within the unions power to expel any of it`s members for belonging to a political party, namely the BNP? The reason given in 'The Voice' magazine, as quoted by TUC General Secretary Brendan Barber, was that "they work againt trade union principles".
I should also like to know how the CWU comes upon this information. Do they rely on members to provide this information voluntarily? Or is there some other method whereby this information is obtained?
I should make it clear that I am not a member of any political party, be it the above or even fact the Labour Party (whom by the way I do not believe we should be funding particularly given their recent attitude to Royal Mail workers). But then again, maybe you already know this!
Given the above, I would like to know if you intend to expel those union members that have crossed official picket lines during this dispute, especially those that have crossed every one. Surely that is the ultimate betrayal of trade union principles? I have seen notices of the unions intention to do this. If this is so, when will it be carried out? Can it be done or is it against the law?

I look forward to your reply,"

UNION JACK · Post by **UNION JACK** » 08 Nov 2007, 19:04

NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BNP THERE NOT EXTEMISTS THEIR JUST STICKING UP FOR US BRITISH PEOPLE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY THEIR A COMPLETELY LEGAL PARTY ,ITS A PITY THE CWU DIDNT STICK UP FOR US LIKE THEY SHOULD BE.

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 08 Nov 2007, 20:00

UNION JACK wrote:NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BNP THERE NOT EXTEMISTS THEIR JUST STICKING UP FOR US BRITISH PEOPLE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY THEIR A COMPLETELY LEGAL PARTY ,ITS A PITY THE CWU DIDNT STICK UP FOR US LIKE THEY SHOULD BE.

I'll bet you aren't a member though. I've got more time for people with the bottle to join (although I disagree with them) than someone cheerleading from the sidelines.

johnnyp · Post by **johnnyp** » 08 Nov 2007, 20:09

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
UNION JACK wrote:NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BNP THERE NOT EXTEMISTS THEIR JUST STICKING UP FOR US BRITISH PEOPLE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY THEIR A COMPLETELY LEGAL PARTY ,ITS A PITY THE CWU DIDNT STICK UP FOR US LIKE THEY SHOULD BE.

I'll bet you aren't a member though. I've got more time for people with the bottle to join (although I disagree with them) than someone cheerleading from the sidelines.

Lads i know it can be hard but lets keep the politics out of it

Cheers colleagues

yorkie · Post by **yorkie** » 08 Nov 2007, 20:11

I AGREE THAT ALL strike breakers SHOULD BE BOOTED OUT OF THE CWU I KNOW THEY CANT BE.
IM GLAD THAT BNP SUPPORTERS CAN BE THROWN OUT OF UNIONS AS THEY DONT BELONG
IN SOCIETY NEVER MIND THE WORKPLACE............

TORCH THE strike breakers WITH THE FACISTS...............

ROYALMAILCHAT

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