Postal competition 'creates jobs'

[saru]

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp- ... id=7782649


Competition in the postal industry has created 3,300 new jobs in the past four years and the figure could be doubled by 2016.

Research commissioned by TNT Post found that the economic benefit to the UK economy of opening the market to competition is at least £229 million, which could rise to over £400 in the next few years.

There are now 18 licensed competitors to the Royal Mail, although the report pointed out that the main postal group still delivers 99.8% of post.

Nick Wells, chief executive of TNT Post UK, said: "This research proves that postal competition in the UK is good. It is good for business. It is good for the UK taxpayer. It is good for Royal Mail.

"We want to create jobs, we want to innovate, we want to deliver for our customers but we are being held back by the Royal Mail VAT advantage. It has to go."

David Stubbs of Europe Economics, which conducted the study, added: "Royal Mail has been a key beneficiary of competition to date. Prior to the deregulation of the UK postal market, its pace of innovation and reform was slow relative to that in other postal markets.

"Royal Mail is facing up to its future and starting to address the challenges of its customers who are looking at new ways to communicate or advertise their products."

TNT Post is a leading competitor of the Royal Mail, handling more than 130 million items a month.

[andy2007]

How can TNT claim to be a competitor handling 130 million items a month, when they don't deliver much if any Mail?
Why must we put up with these blatant attempts to trick the Public into thinking that we have an unfair advantage?
If they are so worried about VAT exemptions, then why not lobby the Government to allow them the same VAT exemptions if AND ONLY IF they deliver ALL the Mail that they handle?

I'll tell you why: it's because THEY ARE TOTALLY INCAPABLE OF DOING THE JOB EFFECTIVELY! They have had plenty of time to put the neccessary infastucture in place to start providing an ETE Service, but they have failed to do so. Now they are putting rubbish like this in the Press, to trick people into thinking that we have an unfair advantage.

[F0zziebear]

Unfortunately the VAt issue is one of the main barriers to competitors creating a rival E2E system. The VAt exemption that RoyalMail has essentially takes away any profit margin. Because of this the millions it would take to set-up and fund a rival E2E system is just not currently viable. This is why TNT and others are just handling mail via DSA.

Imagine creating a rival E2E system.
You need to invest heavily to provide the infrastructure and then pay staff until such a time as they are delivering enough mail to make a profit. It just simply doesn't happen overnight. However, TNT have enough baselaod mail (large postings) to provide enough mail per delivery round to make this work in theory.
However, RoyalMail actually offer a fantastic quality of service (OK so they have moved the goalposts, but next day currently means anytime next day or whichever day). Businesses and especially banks have made it clear that they will not compromise on quality.

This amongst numerous other factors makes it madness at the moment to create a rival E2E business, which has huge risk attached and if they fail once they are unlikely to be trusted again.

Hope this explains the current situation, so no you won't be seeing ppl in Orange walking down your garden path whistling, and petting the local friendly dog just yet

F0zz has been tangoed

[plodsie]

The big thing is, when everything falls flalt on it's face TNT can bugger off and leave the mess to RM with absolutely no comebacks. How can they say we actually benefit from DSA? TNT are not the competition, they are PARASITES, effectively living off Royal Mail, as without RM and DSA (and a pathetic regulator) there would be no TNT Post. They advertise their service as reliable. Yes it is reliable, reliable on Royal Mail. As for them actually creating jobs, what kind of jobs are they? Certainly not delivery ones!

Good on TNT though, they saw a Government who couldn't have cared less about their postal service and knew that we were in no condition to compete against them. Like good businessmen they are taking us for a ride.

[Phantom]

Competition is NOT good for the UK postal market, it may have created jobs but that would be PART TIME jobs, it also has one of the highest staff turnovers of any industry.

ONLY large bulk mailers have gained!!!, NOBODY else has!!!

Mail is NOT in decline has many news sites keep on repeating, namely "Hellmail" - would you enter a declining market??? - I didn't think so!

Competition has created a WORSE SERVICE, especially for delivery, later delivery times are NOT what the customers want despite being repeatedly told that "people don't care what time they get their mail", this is simply untrue and it is being used to justify later deliveries.

It's a real mess now

[Night Tonic]

Parcels and packages are not in decline but letters definately are and thats a big part of what we do.

[Broxi51]

How can they justify prices rising from 19p to 34p to be good for the economy?
RM used to manage to keep to excellent targets plus make a profit with 2 deliveries.
Now the economy has a crap mail delivery service.

[DGP1]

Parcels and packages are not in decline but letters definately are and thats a big part of what we do.

Letters are only in decline if you exclude DSA but in my DO our overall volume has increased 25% in 3 years.

[Phantom]

Parcels and packages are not in decline but letters definately are and thats a big part of what we do.

Not for delivery staff, we have more than ever now!

4 years ago my walk was 6 bags and now its 9 every day - this is a direct increase in letters

When I first did the walk 15 years ago as a cover it was 2 bags every day

[Night Tonic]

And how much of that is TNT or others?

[Phantom]

And how much of that is TNT or others?

If u look at it from a mail centre point of view then yes, we have lost it to DSA but not from a delivery point of view!

Overall letters are increasing and are not in decline

[bandit650]

20 years ago we had 600 drop deliverys,the most delivery bags we had then was 3 on a bad day,i have a near 600 drop now, when i first did the delivery im on 6 years ago it got 6-7 bags, it is not unusal for me to get 9-11 bags on heavy days now,the over all average on mine is 9.4.
When the managers talk about decreasing levels of mail they dont tell you the whole truth, the mail being posted and processed by RM is going down that is because DSA is cheeper for other companys like TNT,DHL,BP so on so forth to provide large posters, in fact MS3 is in decline as companys are useing DSA service,Why? because they are still getting it delivered next day or within 2 days cheaper than using 1st or 2nd class hence the increase in mail processed and delivered on saturdays which is why alot of delivery offices are haveing huge problems clearing on a weekend.
The thing is the management like to be doom and gloom about it all because they think you should be gratefull that you have a job just like in the Torie days, cap in hand but over all mail has increased by 35% delivery side which is why you have so many delivery bods having skeletol issues which in the end is going to cost these delivery companys not just RM huge amounts of money in claims,bit like RSI only for the joints.

[POSTMAN]

Nick Wells, chief executive of TNT Post UK, said: "This research proves that postal competition in the UK is good. It is good for business. It is good for the UK taxpayer. It is good for Royal Mail.

w****r!

Competition in the postal industry has created 3,300 new jobs in the past four years and the figure could be doubled by 2016.

40,000+ lost so far and how many by 2016!
w*****s again.

[F0zziebear]

Providing an individual, depot, or even area level anecdote does not mean that mail volumes are increasing or staying static. You have to consider the national figures, which are based solely on the mail survey carried out by an independent research company on behalf of Royal Mail. This is where the figures come from.

Secondly, individual delivery rounds should have increased in size and as an individual postie or round is larger, with more letters, and probably an increased density of mail in urban areas versus rural areas.

Jobs have been lost and Nick Wells' comments do not consider the wider picture. More part-time jobs do exist now. However, it is true to say that jobs have been created, but in the private sector which is technically true.

UPstream jobs and mail have declined. DSa has taken approx. 15-20% of the market in the upstream sector, by this I mean collection, outward sorting and distribution. Inward sorting, distribution and delivery still has approx 99% market share will continue to do so for sometime to come.

Post is an emotional issue in the UK as it is considered a strong part of the cultural make-up of the country. However, people were getting a gold-plated service at cheap prices. I have no problem with this, but as a member of Europe etc... It is now considered that Royal Mail needs to open itself up from being a monopoly.

I don't mind people being emotional on here as it shows a passion, but putting out emotional statements as fact on a national scale is not correct, and I feel it's fair for me to provide what I personally consider a less emotionally attached perspective.

F0zz

[pinstripe]

Providing an individual, depot, or even area level anecdote does not mean that mail volumes are increasing or staying static. You have to consider the national figures, which are based solely on the mail survey carried out by an independent research company on behalf of Royal Mail. This is where the figures come from.

Secondly, individual delivery rounds should have increased in size and as an individual postie or round is larger, with more letters, and probably an increased density of mail in urban areas versus rural areas.

Jobs have been lost and Nick Wells' comments do not consider the wider picture. More part-time jobs do exist now. However, it is true to say that jobs have been created, but in the private sector which is technically true.

UPstream jobs and mail have declined. DSa has taken approx. 15-20% of the market in the upstream sector, by this I mean collection, outward sorting and distribution. Inward sorting, distribution and delivery still has approx 99% market share will continue to do so for sometime to come.

Post is an emotional issue in the UK as it is considered a strong part of the cultural make-up of the country. However, people were getting a gold-plated service at cheap prices. I have no problem with this, but as a member of Europe etc... It is now considered that Royal Mail needs to open itself up from being a monopoly.

I don't mind people being emotional on here as it shows a passion, but putting out emotional statements as fact on a national scale is not correct, and I feel it's fair for me to provide what I personally consider a less emotionally attached perspective.

F0zz

RE: Highlighted part above.

I hope you're not being 'fatist'

I agree that the increase in density should be taken into account when we are complaining that our rounds have got heavier, DPG is increasing at an alarming rate here in the south east, my round has increased by 10% in the past 3 years with an obvious increase in the amount of mail for these new addresses. While RM and the union want to know all about this growth, I've had no time added to my round to compensate for it. Oh, and down here at least, there is very little land for development so most of the DPG is conversions with new builds in gardens, waste land etc. Does anyone know if Pegasus takes these into account?