Agreement to extend national talks

[stevie247]

[quote][/quote]fishtank wrote:Based on the only "trial" i have seen.
It will take in my opinion 4hrs for 2 people to deliver two 3.30 walking deliveries using park&loop.
Sorry but IMO no way park&loop would save 3 hours if this is what RM believe the savings will be then it's an agreement for failure.

[not me]

Dvbuk your wrong door to door is done within worktime and you recieve a payment for this it is not part of your offices traffic and does not determine call rate or is it calculate in your prep figures. Once it is in workload then it will be included in all aspects of your revision and not just an add on.Yes the ceiling will be lifted and hopefully Royal Mail will be able to win more of the unaddressed items in a growing market.

I understand some dont like doing Door to Door but surely more work into workload is a good thing for protecting jobs.

Now with regards to Car derived vans (DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER ) This is Royal Mail plans and arguements. ( Not the CWU )

1. Deliveries within a mile from the office will be completed using a HCT , where the terain is steep then by a powered HCT.

2, Deliveries more than a mile from the office will be compeleted by two delivery employees using a car derived van with light weight trolleys.

3, Now Royal Mail belive ( wrongly in my opinion ) that car dervived vans do not require replensihment time as the van houses all the work and the only dead time is walking to the van. however no thought to areas with no or limited parking

4 That car dervived vans will remove any need for work to be carried on the shoulder so will reduce both fratigue and injuries and therefore assist in longer delivery spans. with flats you cant use trolleys and to my point above can end up carrying more or dead walking more

5. That car derived vans will remove support duties ie any duties which accelates postman to delivery , repnishes them in pouch drops etc or that delivers packets and in some case small firm runs.

6 . That car derived vans remove any need for the use of private cars on delivery and that they be banned. well thats questionable as in my office it still happens.RM need to state cars are not allowed

7 Dont laugh but Royal Mail say by introducing car derived vans they are accutually helping the enviorment by stopping the use of private cars on delivery.im laughing

8. Royal Mail car derived vans will reduce in car park space without Royal Mail premises as more vans will introduced.

9. Some people will be allowed to take home their van and use it to communite to and from work providing where they park the van overnight has been cleared by Royal Mail. yes if you face fits,others have duties with no time allowed for driving back to the office even though they have to

10 Royal Mail has 140 million to spend on car derived vans and intend intalling over 25000 into office over the next twelve months.

11. The introduction of car derived vans allow Royal Mail to enter into new products and services.

So you see the arguements are putting forward and the alledged investment they are committing.

a few comments from someone who is already deadwalking & going loopy

[fishtank]

fishtank wrote:Based on the only "trial" i have seen.
It will take in my opinion 4hrs for 2 people to deliver two 3.30 walking deliveries using park&loop.
Sorry but IMO no way park&loop would save 3 hours if this is what RM believe the savings will be then it's an agreement for failure.

Sorry you misunderstood me.
2 people to deliver 2 3.30 deliveries in 4 hrs =8hrs

not a 3hr saving a 1hr loss.

[Big Daz]

dingo

Do you know if RML intend to convert bike based deliveries to HCT? I need no more than a total of 15 mins travelling time every day. That would extend if I had to walk and the actual delivery would extend by walking. Any time saving from sequenced mail would be wiped out

I think it may be as black and white as 1mile from the D.O Daz.

Oh dear, ideology getting in the way of comon sense To be expected due the serious lack of national level managers and board members who have never been a frontline CMA or CWU grade.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk your wrong door to door is done within worktime and you recieve a payment for this it is not part of your offices traffic and does not determine call rate or is it calculate in your prep figures. Once it is in workload then it will be included in all aspects of your revision and not just an add on.Yes the ceiling will be lifted and hopefully Royal Mail will be able to win more of the unaddressed items in a growing market..

I understand where you are coming from dingo BUT if the D2Ds are prepped in prep time and delivered in delivery time you can understand when I say it is already part of the workload, whether it is part of the traffic or not is a moot point if you are the one who is doing it.

The vans being parked at a postmans' house is also a thorny issue, it would certainly suit RM but could there not be tax implications, neighbour implications, sickness and a problem of insecure parking. Should there also not be some reward for being available to drive for RM as was the case some years ago. Park and loop also raises the issue of non drivers being used which places the onus on one member of the "team" to take responsibility for speeding, parking, large packets.

[dvbuk55]

dingo

Do you know if RML intend to convert bike based deliveries to HCT? I need no more than a total of 15 mins travelling time every day. That would extend if I had to walk and the actual delivery would extend by walking. Any time saving from sequenced mail would be wiped out

I think it may be as black and white as 1mile from the D.O Daz.

Oh dear, ideology getting in the way of comon sense To be expected due the serious lack of national level managers and board members who have never been a frontline CMA or CWU grade.

I would think that the criterion would be the first drop is 1 mile from the office - but lets for arguments sake say you did the last drop first, which could be more than a mile and the first drop last, so that you finished closer to the depot - would that then make it a park and loop duty?

[fishtank]

dingo

Do you know if RML intend to convert bike based deliveries to HCT? I need no more than a total of 15 mins travelling time every day. That would extend if I had to walk and the actual delivery would extend by walking. Any time saving from sequenced mail would be wiped out

I think it may be as black and white as 1mile from the D.O Daz.

Oh dear, ideology getting in the way of comon sense To be expected due the serious lack of national level managers and board members who have never been a frontline CMA or CWU grade.

I would think that the criterion would be the first drop is 1 mile from the office - but lets for arguments sake say you did the last drop first, which could be more than a mile and the first drop last, so that you finished closer to the depot - would that then make it a park and loop duty?

Unless you can see your first drop from the canteen window it will be park&loop.
HCTs are very terrian specific and using a bike would require bags to be dropped off which goes against the grand plan.

[Martin Walsh]

Daz under any new delivery model there will be no bike duties. There will only be HCT (powered or unpowered for walks less than a mile from the office and car derived vans. Rurals will remain unchanged.

[fishtank]

The vans being parked at a postmans' house is also a thorny issue, it would certainly suit RM but could there not be tax implications, neighbour implications, sickness and a problem of insecure parking. Should there also not be some reward for being available to drive for RM as was the case some years ago. Park and loop also raises the issue of non drivers being used which places the onus on one member of the "team" to take responsibility for speeding, parking, large packets.

Spot on dvb.
No-one has answered the question of non-drivers.
And then the temptation to take mail home....
At the very least those with a van home will have to have off road parking.
And if i was told to pick people up in the morning i would expect to be paid for it.

[dvbuk55]

Daz under any new delivery model there will be no bike duties. There will only be HCT (powered or unpowered for walks less than a mile from the office and car derived vans. Rurals will remain unchanged.

Has that already been agreed as the new delivery model or will that become part and parcel of the vote. How are rurals not going to be changed? Will they not become park and loop with golf trolleys or are they going to be using their own vehicles?

[dvbuk55]

The vans being parked at a postmans' house is also a thorny issue, it would certainly suit RM but could there not be tax implications, neighbour implications, sickness and a problem of insecure parking. Should there also not be some reward for being available to drive for RM as was the case some years ago. Park and loop also raises the issue of non drivers being used which places the onus on one member of the "team" to take responsibility for speeding, parking, large packets.

Spot on dvb.
No-one has answered the question of non-drivers.
And then the temptation to take mail home....
At the very least those with a van home will have to have off road parking.
And if i was told to pick people up in the morning i would expect to be paid for it.

As per usual in recent agreements it is a question of what Royal Mail want and how best to fit it into the agreement without cost - BUT - we should be looking at a fair days work, for a fair days pay and reward for additional responsibility, which I have to say has been sadly lacking in recent agreements.

We already have park and loop and there is the case of non drivers being used but up to now no home parking but it has been suggested. Now there is the issue of a driver dropping a non driver at home whilst the driver returns to the depot to hand in specials, packets, hand in keys and I just wonder how long, with the proposed extended delivery span, they will also be expected to do collections - which a couple already do!

[Martin Walsh]

For obvious reason I wont go into to much detail but there are no tax liabilities providing the terms and conditons of the policy are agreed by Royal Mail and the indivudual who has agreed to having to taking the van home. The policy which comes into play is titled Royal Mail"s guidence for overnight retention of vehicles and powered equipment. These guidelines are 23 pages long and quite frankly the criteria if applied in full will mean an indivudual will have to agree to a number of safeguards before Royal Mail agree to allowing the induvdual to park the van overnight at their home.

With regards to people who cant drive , well Royal Mail will ringfence one job out of every car derived van to a driver. This will have implication in terms of resigns and off course how in the future leave is selected etc.

Overnight park is covered in the guidelines , as are continguencies for an indivudual who has a van parked outside their house if they are sick or commencing annual leave.

If someone is foolish enough to take work home then they will if caught be taken down the conduct code.

[fishtank]

With regards to people who cant drive , well Royal Mail will ringfence one job out of every car derived van to a driver. This will have implication in terms of resigns and off course how in the future leave is selected etc.


It will have implications as to the whole design of a park&loop delivery.
This delivery model was designed for two drivers not one.
The single driver will constantly have to double back to the van.
This means either the non-driver will have to deliver to more calls and take more mail with him or he will be standing around doing nothing.

[wranglered]

At my D.O due to a CWU area agreed terms of reference for the entire PE and CB postcode areas we mitigated the walking speed with a delivery span of 3.15

and none of the management took the slightest notice.......

[bogstandard]

2 in a van will not IMO stop people from using their cars in fact it will make them more devious and probably exchange mail out on delivery then pee off home when they've done it all