European union ruling

[strangler]

We should be proud that those fleeing perscution feel that the UK is a safe and decent place to come to!

Is he having a laugh?

[IWW Fellow Worker]

We should be proud that those fleeing perscution feel that the UK is a safe and decent place to come to!

Is he having a laugh?

Why? Don't you feel it is safe and decent?

[strangler]

Why? Don't you feel it is safe and decent?

A good question IWW. Hardly safe in my opinion in terms of some of the crime going on and perhaps more importantly the nature of some of these crimes. The people I know certainly feel less safe these days.
As for decent, is it a decent country that pays its pensioners poorly, its war widows a pittance, that treats its injured soldiers in such a way that they and their families have to fight for financial support, victims of terrorist atrocities get little if any compensation whilst at the same time it can provide funds for numerous other unworthy causes. Sadly, no I don`t think so.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Why? Don't you feel it is safe and decent?

A good question IWW. Hardly safe in my opinion in terms of some of the crime going on and perhaps more importantly the nature of some of these crimes. The people I know certainly feel less safe these days.
As for decent, is it a decent country that pays its pensioners poorly, its war widows a pittance, that treats its injured soldiers in such a way that they and their families have to fight for financial support, victims of terrorist atrocities get little if any compensation whilst at the same time it can provide funds for numerous other unworthy causes. Sadly, no I don`t think so.

All the more reason not to vote for yet another bosses party then, but work towards the abolition of a system which encourages crime, wars and terrorism.

[strangler]

Which parties would you say are not bosses parties? It`s a nightmare knowing who to vote for these days. No wonder apathy breaks out come election time.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Which parties would you say are not bosses parties? It`s a nightmare knowing who to vote for these days. No wonder apathy breaks out come election time.

You'd be looking at something like the SWP, Socialist Party, Workers Power, CPGB if you like Trotskyism, and the SPGB if you like plain old Marxism. I don't suppose any of those could be classed as bosses parties. Personally, unless something worthwhile came along, or the opportunity to vote tactically to keep the fascists out, I doubt I'll be voting. That's not apathy though. That's antipathy.

[strangler]

Take a look at the white flight from inner london for example,

Not sure I like the terminology above, in fact I haven`t even heard of this term before. It suggests some sort of 'mass exodus'.
However if you`re referring to some people leaving certain areas of London due to an increase in its ethnic population and/or the changes that are a result of that you`re correct in my opinion.

[strangler]

Which parties would you say are not bosses parties? It`s a nightmare knowing who to vote for these days. No wonder apathy breaks out come election time.

You'd be looking at something like the SWP, Socialist Party, Workers Power, CPGB if you like Trotskyism, and the SPGB if you like plain old Marxism. I don't suppose any of those could be classed as bosses parties. Personally, unless something worthwhile came along, or the opportunity to vote tactically to keep the fascists out, I doubt I'll be voting. That's not apathy though. That's antipathy.

Worth looking at IWW although I doubt if I`d find one candidate out of that lot in my area!

[t-c]

SECTION 1: POLITICAL OBJECTIVES

(b) The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic
character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial
integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed
to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by
legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the
British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.

Racial policies.
The BNP requires that all members must be members of the "Indigenous Caucasian" "racial group" The party does not regard non-white people as being British
Race is still important to the BNP’s understanding of nation and identity. The BNP is opposed to mixed-race relationships on the stated ground that racial differences must be preserved; it argues that when a white person produces a mixed-race child, "a white family line that stretches back into deep pre-history is destroyed.
Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial.
Both the BNP and its leader, Nick Griffin, have historically promoted anti-Semitism and holocaust denial
Nick Griffin describes his views on race as follows: "... while the BNP is not racist, it must not become multi-racist either.

Anti-Islam focus.
The party states that "The BNP has moved on in recent years, casting off the leg-irons of conspiracy theories and the thinly veiled anti-Semitism which has held this party back for two decades. The real enemies of the British people are home grown Anglo-Saxon Celtic liberal-leftists ... and the Crescent Horde – the endless wave of Islamics who are flocking to our shores to bring our island nations into the embrace of their barbaric desert religion. They have described this as the 'islamification' of Great Britain.

So what else is there for this party left out of their war on this country, oh yes...
Opposition to gay rights.
The BNP had traditionally maintained a policy of re-criminalisation of homosexuality, This, alongside the suggestion that "it undermines social/marital cohesion by adding confusion..
After of the bombing Admiral Duncan pub in the heart of London's homosexual community, killing three people (including a pregnant woman) and wounded around 70. by a former BNP member..
and offically distancing the BNP from Copeland, Mr Griffin wrote in the bombing that homosexuals protesting against the murders were "flaunting their perversion in front of the world's journalists, [and] showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures disgusting."
And gay,lesbians, bisexuals of ALL colours fought for this country too, they are "British" but this party would happily advocate discrimination, torture and worse.
Its not too far from the regular public executions for LGBT people in Iran, Iraq and other Middle East countries.

BNP notes from the below link.
http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/British+Nat ... ote_rf-127

[Rob Ray]

Oldie but a goodie - "whoever you vote for, the government gets in".

I think politics tends to be driven by economics and industry/worker pressure rather than party ideology - eg. post war the Tories implemented a load of progressive legislation because they were terrified of the possibility of a working class uprising from veteran WW2 soldiers expecting a reward for their maimings and dead friends and night terrors, while even supposedly leftist Labour PMs have repeatedly attacked strikers etc when in power over the years because they didn't want to scare off big business or lose their positions.

An interesting case study in this is the ANC in South Africa, who during Apartheid were pretty much commies. When they took power, their actual policy made one of the most dramatic shifts in history, from nationalisation, redistribution of wealth and land etc, to basically a neo-liberal ideology with smatterings of racial equality law (which has been pretty ineffective, eg. white-owned companies were told they had to have black executive members - so boards employed sometimes illiterate black people to simply sign an X next to their names in meetings).

A guy called Paul Kingsnorth interviewed a pretty senior party member a few years back about this, and was basically told that if they'd implemented a more equitable system or thrown out the multinationals screwing the population over, they had been warned international industrial concerns would simply withdraw all labour, equipment and expertise, and crash the south african stock market, leaving them utterly in the s**t with no way out.

Unsurprisingly, they caved, and this is mostly the case for every country which doesn't have something the market is gagging for - eg. Saudi Arabia or Venezuela with their oil reserves, or China with their vast labour force - which allow the state the freedom to do what they want. Quite what the BNP think they can do about this when they're so utterly simple as to still be spouting off about reappropriating utilities and the like for 'British people' (ie their mates - now that really would be a complete disaster, knuckleheads like Tony Lecomber running major industries) I have no idea.

Basically, there's one really effective way working people can make a difference in their favour, and that's to pose more of a threat to the smooth running of the economy than business bosses and lobbyists can.

When the grassroots workforce is well organised and able to actively threaten government control of a situation, then concessions are made. When it's not, we end up with a situation like we have now, where industry lobbyists and business chiefs simply ride roughshod over our rights and attack our living conditions, and government apparatchiks with an eye on a sweet job when they quit politics have nothing to stop them tossing national industries to the sharks.