Build a Rank and File Movement in the CWU

Post by **dvbuk55** » 12 Sep 2007, 09:30

BELIAL wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote: So you see that might is right after all. Looking at this, RM is only asking us to be flexible - I'll leave the leaning on the tools to the cleaner!
ooh you look like your out in the open now you sneaky snake in the grass. Word up chaps ,they hide long and deep,or ,am i a really stupid s**t an everyone else spotted him years ago

Oh no! OK guv - I am really Alan Leighton - I'll resign. Hey does anyone remember Lobby Ludd was it. You know you spotted him somewhere and a newspaper gave you some money or a prize - well tough it doesn't apply here -p I'll get Adam to whack another .5% on the pay rise we're not giving you.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 12 Sep 2007, 11:22

Maybe I misread it?

dvbuk55 wrote: So you see that might is right after all. Looking at this, RM is only asking us to be flexible - I'll leave the leaning on the tools to the cleaner!

Nope you said it. :shock

borders · Post by **borders** » 12 Sep 2007, 11:28

excellent thread chaps, very interesting. should we build a Rank and File movement, the answer to that has got to be Yes , can we really trust the people at the top of our Union?? i think we have actually begun to develop one, this forum is testiment to that. why not run off some flyers/ stickers and distribute them to everyone in our workplaces, the more people that know about this website ,the more solidarity we can build and develop. the discussion around immigration is a very emotive one. i agree with the likes of IWW and PCB who have argued their cases admirable. the only case against immigration i can think of ,is one of space . what about all the brits that have immigrated abroad, will we have to bring them all back ?? on the subject of Capitalism, i believe Capitalism is more out of control than it has ever been. in a capitalist society, the one rule is --no profit, no production. competition amongst companies in a capitalist economy requires them to make their products more attractive to buyers than that of their competitors. there are several tactics used-- reducing the price charged, making the same products appear different and better, bringing new products to the market that are not really needed, or undermining, weakening and then either buying up or destroying the competition.the heart of the whole process of making a profit is the ability of the workers [ including managers] to add more value to inputs during the working day than that of the total costs of their employment to the firm. the difference between the total cost of labour and the value added by the worker is called Surplus Value. while we are free to sell our labour power to an employer, once bought it becomes a commodity for use by the capitalist alone.----------------------------Power To The People----------------------------------------------------

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 12 Sep 2007, 19:19

borders wrote:excellent thread chaps, very interesting. should we build a Rank and File movement, the answer to that has got to be Yes , can we really trust the people at the top of our Union?? i think we have actually begun to develop one, this forum is testiment to that. why not run off some flyers/ stickers and distribute them to everyone in our workplaces, the more people that know about this website ,the more solidarity we can build and develop. the discussion around immigration is a very emotive one. i agree with the likes of IWW and PCB who have argued their cases admirable. the only case against immigration i can think of ,is one of space . what about all the brits that have immigrated abroad, will we have to bring them all back ?? on the subject of Capitalism, i believe Capitalism is more out of control than it has ever been. in a capitalist society, the one rule is --no profit, no production. competition amongst companies in a capitalist economy requires them to make their products more attractive to buyers than that of their competitors. there are several tactics used-- reducing the price charged, making the same products appear different and better, bringing new products to the market that are not really needed, or undermining, weakening and then either buying up or destroying the competition.the heart of the whole process of making a profit is the ability of the workers [ including managers] to add more value to inputs during the working day than that of the total costs of their employment to the firm. the difference between the total cost of labour and the value added by the worker is called Surplus Value. while we are free to sell our labour power to an employer, once bought it becomes a commodity for use by the capitalist alone.----------------------------Power To The People----------------------------------------------------

It's foxy

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 12 Sep 2007, 19:24

borders wrote:why not run off some flyers/ stickers and distribute them to everyone in our workplaces, the more people that know about this website ,the more solidarity we can build and develop.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/im ... mpaign.pdf

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 12 Sep 2007, 19:28

Done that lots, need a new cartridge. I want MORE.

borders · Post by **borders** » 12 Sep 2007, 23:38

Belial------- not with you my beaut ???????

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 12 Sep 2007, 23:43

borders wrote:Belial------- not with you my beaut ???????

Sorry, what the woolfy bit or RM chat?

borders · Post by **borders** » 13 Sep 2007, 10:02

Belial--- got back from work, read your post----Foxy ?? what the hell does that mean ?? --turned the computer off--- then it came to me---- Wolfie Smith -- Power to the People !!!!! sorry a bit slow !!!!

norbet colon · Post by **norbet colon** » 13 Sep 2007, 10:16

borders wrote:Belial--- got back from work, read your post----Foxy ?? what the hell does that mean ?? --turned the computer off--- then it came to me---- Wolfie Smith -- Power to the People !!!!! sorry a bit slow !!!!

-I think Wolfie missed the boat in 1917!, Trots and Tankies are so easy to deal with.

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 13 Sep 2007, 11:06

norbet colon wrote:
borders wrote:Belial--- got back from work, read your post----Foxy ?? what the hell does that mean ?? --turned the computer off--- then it came to me---- Wolfie Smith -- Power to the People !!!!! sorry a bit slow !!!!
-I think Wolfie missed the boat in 1917!, Trots and Tankies are so easy to deal with.

The unaligned loose cannon is another matter though.

goinpostal · Post by **goinpostal** » 13 Sep 2007, 15:30

pcb wrote:Building an alternative system to what we have now will not be easy. To much sectarianism within the working class, the thread through this debate I believe has been on how and why we the workers cannot get a better deal for ourselves. Imigration is a red herring (pun not intended) Do any of you believe that you would be better off without imigration in this country. The system is geared up to play one set of workers against another set of workers. Only under capitalism can money (capital) go anywhere in this world yet human beings are restricted due to national borders. Well this only applies to us the workers, the capitalists can and go where they like and do what they like. Paid for either by us through taxes or stolen through international agreements made by the priviledged (patents and natural resources). The reasoning over imigration is and has always been a floored arguement. This country has been made through imigration. the market does not care where you come from just as long as it can exploit you. Without surplus workers the system cannot work, without workers willing to under cut each other the system cannot work, without workers being blinded by misgiuded beliefs the system cannot work. Have you noticed something, it the workers who are exploited every day and if they remain divided we will be in this position year after year. Just think about it. Capitalism works internationally, so the workers have to be internationalists to combat this exploitation.

good post pcb, it will not be easy to build an alternative but it will be worth it! Forums like this is a start, but you need a movement in the CWU and all the unions to go from debate to an actual struggle to change the union's present direction, and to get thousands more involved, after all we are fighting royal mail in the real world not online and it has to be a mass struggle. Not too worried about sectarianism, it tends to wither away when it is forced to show itself out in the open in a workers democracy, people can see right through it. By discusing and voting, the majority can develop a strategy to fight for. Thats how every movement has begun including the unions themselves originally. Different wings of the movement like socialists, anarchists, left-wing labour people would have different ideas of what to fight for and how to fight for it. Fine have a democratic debate and let the workers decide. If the movement makes mistakes it will learn from them if it is democratic.

We are just a collection of individuals, but we can pass resolutions in our branches or workplace meetings. If even one of the branches called for a rank and file movement, called a conference and publicised it then that would be a huge step forward. If this forum helped sdtart such a movement then it will have proved its worth. I always thought it was a mistake when the CWU closed down its members web board (coincidentally, right when the postal market opened and all this fuss started kicking off).

ROCKY · Post by **ROCKY** » 13 Sep 2007, 16:19

whats your problem with tankies norbert

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 13 Sep 2007, 16:20

ROCKY wrote:whats your problem with tankies norbert

They're Stalinists! We all have a problem with them.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 13 Sep 2007, 17:10

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
ROCKY wrote:whats your problem with tankies norbert
They're Stalinists! We all have a problem with them.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tankie

A hardline Stalinist. A tankie is a member of a communist group or a "fellow traveler" (sympathizer) who believes fully in the political system of the Soviet Union and defends/defended the actions of the Soviet Union and other accredited states (China, Serbia, etc.) to the hilt, even in cases where other communists criticise their policies or actions. For instance, such a person favours overseas interventions by Soviet-style states, defends these regimes when they engage in human rights violations, and wishes to establish a similar system in other countries such as Britain and America.

Oooo I can see why.

ROYALMAILCHAT

Build a Rank and File Movement in the CWU

"Wolfie" Smith

Re: "Wolfie" Smith