BA and union talks stopped by protesters

[LJR]

That's the big question. Were they misguided, misled by an Agent Provector, or did they deliberately start out to prevent the talks taking place?

When the news first broke. I was convinced that they were simply misguided. But now, I'm not too sure. Particularly as it was so easy for them to find the meeting, and the fact that there was nothing to stop them getting there. Now, I think it's far more likley that it was an Agent Provector.

What do you think?

It is my opinion Andy that groups like the SWP are made up of 90% idealists and 10% attention seekers.
There is nothing wrong with being an idealist,i was one once before the wife,the kids and the mortgage but it's the 10% that worry me.
An organisation like the SWP needs publicity,without it membership dwindles and that 10% finds itself ignored.
I don't think it would be too hard to find out where the meeting was held after all i would imagine the SWP would have members inside Unite as they do the CWU.
However the lack of security does surprise me after all the press had been following both parties for most of the day and i would have imagined some security would have been required just to stop press intrusion.Maybe someone was taking a smoke break....who knows.
I think at the end of the day it was just a poorly thought through publicity stunt......maybe.

Nothing much surprises me anymore, living in the modern UK as we do. We are lied to every day (yeah boring heard it all before and i am paranoid but there we are, you cant even get home phone without the sh*ts twisting the truth to make themselves look good and the others look bad and you end up paying through the nose) Walsh and co have used all these dirty tricks before with their USA strike breaking firm. Their was NO LACK of security it was missing! and after Walsh walked away UNITE said they would call the strikes OFF if BA reinstated the perks that are not anything that cost that much to BA but mean much to striking employees when strike breakers get them! The fact some on RMC are seeing something wrong is good but i still wonder what they doubt when in our own towns we can be murdered for a tenner but fail to see its worth to the idle rich playing a game destroying a Union and making Billions after with cuts that they get Millions in bonuses after. The bottom line is there were HUNDREDS of POLICE there, dozens of security and more than a few CCTV plus staff and it still happened! How many times do people have to be pissed on and told its raining before they ask WTF.

[fishtank]

I have absolutely no doubt that Walsh would sink that low LJR,in fact in his case i think he would need a step ladder to get to that level and i am well aware just how much money is involved in union busting,it's big business both here and especially in the U.S.A.
I just think that in this case it was such a clumsy attempt that it doesn't quite gel for me.
I could easily be wrong though and i would imagine someone at the SWP knows the truth.

[andy2007]

That's precisely what worries me about it. The combination of the missing security, allowing the group to get there, and the fact that they were so fired up. It smacks of a set-up to me.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Because of your attitude since then, of course. You've included an insult in all your replies since then.

Really? Highlight them please....

Now I know I am going to get flack as this is a subject that myself and TMan have been over before. First of all I don't think that any of your posts include "insults" that can be highlighted individually as a breach of the rules.

However, your posts come across as very condescending and as though their main aim was to denigrate either an individual or group, rather than to impart your opinion. Now whether that's your intention or not it does not really matter, it is how individuals perceive it, and, to be frank you do come across as someone who thinks everyone with a different opinion or political persuasion is beneath contempt. As I say I don't think you do it intentionally but you do cause more problems than most members.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Tman thanks for your PM which covers old ground so I am not going to respond by PM but your last point about other posters doing what you are accused of I will ask publicly, as I have asked privately on occasion, if you think they are breaking the rules then use the report feature.

I am one man and I cannot personally read and judge every single post on her. We do have a small Moderating and Admin team but still we cannot read every post. So everyone, or anyone who thinks a post is out of order then please report it.

This is why TMan, and others, think I single them out, people report their posts and we have to act on those reports.

[LJR]

I have absolutely no doubt that Walsh would sink that low LJR,in fact in his case i think he would need a step ladder to get to that level and i am well aware just how much money is involved in union busting,it's big business both here and especially in the U.S.A.
I just think that in this case it was such a clumsy attempt that it doesn't quite gel for me.
I could easily be wrong though and i would imagine someone at the SWP knows the truth.

But does any group of fired up people know whats going on when say a few fellas not in SWP, say to those on a demo lets do this or that and nothing or Know-one stops them and the leaders know just where to go and the big boss of BA uses that as an excuse to walk away and stop negotiations. I would think the last people to know anything were the sheep of the SWP who stormed that building with the expertise that the SAS couldnt manage in the Iranian embassy siege or anything since. One last point if i was the CEO of BA i would ensure that fools didnt do what they wanted and stop negotiations to settle this dispute and would have carried on till the bitter end! The will was not there, why not?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I have absolutely no doubt that Walsh would sink that low LJR,in fact in his case i think he would need a step ladder to get to that level and i am well aware just how much money is involved in union busting,it's big business both here and especially in the U.S.A.
I just think that in this case it was such a clumsy attempt that it doesn't quite gel for me.
I could easily be wrong though and i would imagine someone at the SWP knows the truth.

But does any group of fired up people know whats going on when say a few fellas not in SWP, say to those on a demo lets do this or that and nothing or Know-one stops them and the leaders know just where to go and the big boss of BA uses that as an excuse to walk away and stop negotiations. I would think the last people to know anything were the sheep of the SWP who stormed that building with the expertise that the SAS couldnt manage in the Iranian embassy siege or anything since. One last point if i was the CEO of BA i would ensure that fools didnt do what they wanted and stop negotiations to settle this dispute and would have carried on till the bitter end! The will was not there, why not?

Willy played it like a professional, and even if it did not have a hand in the invasion he certainly milked it for all its worth. After all unless he knew for a fact he was safe, why would any CEO stay talking on the phone to someone when he was surrounded by a bunch of vociferous and rowdy protestors, most normal people would have locked themselves in a room till everything had died down.

[LJR]

Was he talking on the phone then? A good point about locking himself and team in a room for safety during it though,

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Was he talking on the phone then? A good point about locking himself and team in a room for safety during it though,

Yep - Now on You Tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORiDWU21mQw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fishtank]

I have absolutely no doubt that Walsh would sink that low LJR,in fact in his case i think he would need a step ladder to get to that level and i am well aware just how much money is involved in union busting,it's big business both here and especially in the U.S.A.
I just think that in this case it was such a clumsy attempt that it doesn't quite gel for me.
I could easily be wrong though and i would imagine someone at the SWP knows the truth.

But does any group of fired up people know whats going on when say a few fellas not in SWP, say to those on a demo lets do this or that and nothing or Know-one stops them and the leaders know just where to go and the big boss of BA uses that as an excuse to walk away and stop negotiations. I would think the last people to know anything were the sheep of the SWP who stormed that building with the expertise that the SAS couldnt manage in the Iranian embassy siege or anything since. One last point if i was the CEO of BA i would ensure that fools didnt do what they wanted and stop negotiations to settle this dispute and would have carried on till the bitter end! The will was not there, why not?

Willy played it like a professional, and even if it did not have a hand in the invasion he certainly milked it for all its worth. After all unless he knew for a fact he was safe, why would any CEO stay talking on the phone to someone when he was surrounded by a bunch of vociferous and rowdy protestors, most normal people would have locked themselves in a room till everything had died down.

Martin Smith the national secretary of the SWP stated that....

there was no attempt to invade the talks at all. He explained that the SWP supporters "arrived outside the venue, the doors were open, we walked in, we got on the wrong floor, and Willie Walsh was in a corridor on the phone, talking to his management".

This guy seems to tell a different story.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxxStfBEsrU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[norbert]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/b ... 17/3657387" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10159911.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ifiwerethem.com/blogs/blog1. ... rew-strike" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/03/ ... itch-hunt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Charlie Whelan Unite

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-se ... ns-56.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; " Interesting Forum " bit like Hellmail or PMC in 2007 being Pro BA , you've got the " Sack 'em all brigade " , The Colonel Blimps , there is a few touting for PCCC - The Company Yellow Union too .

A complex bitter dispute . I agree that Walsh does have a bad reputation in ROI , he tried asset stripping with Aer Lingus then a management buy out . Bertie Aherne said he was a complete c**t , he just put it nicely .

"Dave Spart – ultra-left wing activist, always representing a ridiculous-sounding union, (often the National Amalgamated Union of Sixth-Form Operatives and Allied Trades), collective or magazine, which is frequently based in Neasden) who is given free rein to express his views. These always begin "Once again ...", before attempting to lambast the subject of his anger for alleged misconduct, prejudice or general wrongdoing. Rarely does this get further than a few words before it breaks down into a fragmented litany of "sickening... totally sickening... worse than Hitler..." and so on, before being abruptly curtailed by the inevitable "continued on page 94". Since he must take the alternative view on any subject, he often ends up contradicting himself and getting stuck in illogicality, frequently stopping with "Er..." but continuing anyway. The name 'Spart' is derived from the German Spartacus League which existed during the first world war, and other subsequent revolutionary groups.[citation needed]"

[borders]

as we can read from Tman last post i am sure he would not be afraid to call me a thicko on line on an internet forum if thats what he thought i was ......

Quite so. Would this be classed as a "roll" or a "paradiddle" now....?

how appropiate as i play the drums. a paradiddle is an exercise to improve speed and co-ordination of the hands. one tap with the LH, one tap with the RH and then 2 taps with the LH. and again slightly faster , one tap with the RH , one tap with the LH and then 2 taps with the RH . repeat over and over again speeding up. can you see where he was going with this ANDY...

[andy2007]

Yes, I can now. Thanks Borders.