Royal Mail workers: ‘The situation is getting worse’

[Tman]

Placatory - intended to pacify by acceding to demands or granting concessions - to whom? Did you mean condescending?

No I didn't. I meant placatory, in the sense that he's been attacked for giving an alternative perspective, and to date, he's not responded with anything other than conciliatory words.

Fozz tells it from past experience, presumably, and from a biased view.

So who's "unbiased" then? On that basis who could give an unbiased view? Some DO postie? Canteen assistant? Cycle mechanic? DOM ?

There are only two outcomes in any enterprise, whatever the size, success or failure.

Then you're into that good old standby of semantics, and what exactly is meant by "success" or "failure".
Expressions such as "abject failure" and "minor failure" or "a small success" to "outstanding success" suggest that most feel the words are gradational rather than absolute.
Clearly RM still delivers mail six days a week, so the alleged failure can hardly be absolute.

[Big Daz]

Those at the top have not come from within and thats the problem never knowing the reality of life as a fontline postalworker/manager. If they had it would hopefully improve their policies.

[Tman]

Those at the top have not come from within and thats the problem never knowing the reality of life as a fontline postalworker/manager. If they had it would hopefully improve their policies.

Branson was never a pilot, nor was Stelios. Murdoch (I believe) was never a reporter, and the latest Major General Sir Whotisname, boss of the British army was never a pongo. The list could go on, but is it really necessary in the 21st century for a successful company leader to have literally worked their up from the bottom?

Seems a little Victorian....

[Stormproof]

If the so called management came out with us on delivery they would see the what we have to deal with, all they see is us take bags out of the office and load them in to vans. They never see the terrain and other hazards we have to deal with on a daily basis. It must be nice to walk round with rose tinted glasses on

[dvbuk55]

If the so called management came out with us on delivery they would see the what we have to deal with, all they see is us take bags out of the office and load them in to vans. They never see the terrain and other hazards we have to deal with on a daily basis. It must be nice to walk round with rose tinted glasses on

Oh dear - Tman will no doubt have a word or two to say on the subject of DO Posties and their diminishing workload, and he would know of course having friends in high places. You know what they say about a friend in need............... . Whatever position you hold in RM, be it ever so humble, does not change the facts and who knows those facts better than those of us who work on the shop floor.

[F0zziebear]

There has been quite some debate since my last post. As Tman has pointed out every word one uses on here is open to interpretation. By being biased I am supposed to have one view and be one-sided. I reject this on the grounds that I have both praised and criticised senior/middle and frontline management as well as frontline employees.

As for past experience not being of any use, yes it's use does diminish over time, but it is still experience that can be of use. I would also argue that my past experience working for a competitor and having worked with frontline employees and working with middle and the most senior management gives me a fairly unique perspective, which is why I continue to contribute as I feel I have something to off you. If/when that is not the case I will hand in my royalmailchat badge and crawl back under the rock from which I came out from.

I have no problem praising specific things senior management have done. Not everything that has happened over the last ten or so years has been bad. But then one man's success, e.g. removing 'un-necessary' cost from the business is another person's attack on the service. Again we are beginning to realise that unless you are clear about the aims it is difficult to measure success or failure.

As for packets. My understanding that the overall company strategy is 'fulfillment' and packets are at the centre of that. I think you will see more and more emphasis on this in terms of product offering, and structural change, which was alluded to earlier.

One member of the current top management has worked his way up, though not from a frontline 'postie' position. Prior to that the head of RM Operations for several years was Tom Melvin, and to my understanding he worked his way up. He was the one responsible for implementing may of the policies during and since Single Daily Delivery, Mail Centre Review and Transport Review in 2003/04. I never saw his face being bashed in on this site, which suggests to me that just because you're a frontline emlployee you may not know 'everything!'

Points of F0zz

[Tman]

Oh dear - Tman will no doubt have a word or two to say on the subject of DO Posties and their diminishing workload, and he would know of course having friends in high places. You know what they say about a friend in need...............

.

Other than the perfect spelling, that could almost have come from {a certain other poster} . (S)he loves to post somewhat bizarre hyperbole like this. I thought you had more about you though...

Whatever position you hold in RM, be it ever so humble, does not change the facts and who knows those facts better than those of us who work on the shop floor.

On the face of it, many people do. How could it be otherwise, when RM don't provide daily updates on business strategies etc, or share the long-term plans with it's employees?

[dvbuk55]

Oh dear - Tman will no doubt have a word or two to say on the subject of DO Posties and their diminishing workload, and he would know of course having friends in high places. You know what they say about a friend in need...............

.

Other than the perfect spelling, that could almost have come from {a certain other poster} . (S)he loves to post somewhat bizarre hyperbole like this. I thought you had more about you though...

Whatever position you hold in RM, be it ever so humble, does not change the facts and who knows those facts better than those of us who work on the shop floor.

On the face of it, many people do. How could it be otherwise, when RM don't provide daily updates on business strategies etc, or share the long-term plans with it's employees?

Oh go on Tman - you are pulling my leg, RM with a long term plan AND a strategy I cannot lay claim to perfect spelling however, I use a spell checker.

[BELIAL]

On this point I specifically disagree. Jobs for jobs sake is not what I call necessary or of social benefit.

Well who could or would even want to disagree with that?
However that is not the issue, the reality on the delivery side is very far removed from the situation your statement implies .
Workers are faced with constant demands to increase their workload;every month hours are stripped from office budgets;walks get lengthened;staff leave and are not replaced ,it all adds up to more work for less money. So you see , the work is there and not one of RM's innovations has lightened the workload for the remaining staff. "Jobs for jobs sake(s)" is quite clearly not the position we find ourselves in. Just glance through the forum and glean a general picture, ask yourself what comes across as the main theme,looks to me like management bullying ,harassment and intimidation, then ask why would this occur if there was so much spare capacity, it does not add up.
Intimidation is not conducive to high staff moral, low moral does not improve productivity. Willing to bet you that sickness and absentee figures are through the roof right now because of increased and unrealistic workload and despite Atos pressure(I know it's the case in my office) Sort of sums up RM management culture though

[Tman]

Oh go on Tman - you are pulling my leg, RM with a long term plan AND a strategy

OK, I'll admit it's unlikely. Then again, they're not sharing their lack of strategic planning either...

[dvbuk55]

Oh go on Tman - you are pulling my leg, RM with a long term plan AND a strategy

OK, I'll admit it's unlikely. Then again, they're not sharing their lack of strategic planning either...

[nelp]

I dont think that you need senior manergment to have worked their way from the bottom, but you do need them to be told how it is at the shop floor. It is the junior and middle managment that have worked there way up that are to scared to tell the truth. and consequently report what they belive the senior managers want to hear.

For eample the new duty structures being proposed in my office are unworkable and all three managers agree, but will say nothing and blame the staff when it all falls apart.

I also imagine that when new work plans have been brought into an office, that senior managerments view is that all the union did was negotiate a reduction in the hours saved that was originally planed for in said office. When in reality the union would have constructed the whole plan including walk design, attendence patterns etc. The local manager will take all the credit for a sucssefull implementation when infact if a deal is struck it will be the union that solves the problems on the shop floor.

The only way forward is joint working I was recently invited to a meeting with a senior/middle manager without my DOM, when I asked was he not present because me and him may agree over certain things. The answer was that he's opnion lacked any value.

[mailsort6]

I dont think that you need senior manergment to have worked their way from the bottom, but you do need them to be told how it is at the shop floor. It is the junior and middle managment that have worked there way up that are to scared to tell the truth. and consequently report what they belive the senior managers want to hear.

For eample the new duty structures being proposed in my office are unworkable and all three managers agree, but will say nothing and blame the staff when it all falls apart.

I also imagine that when new work plans have been brought into an office, that senior managerments view is that all the union did was negotiate a reduction in the hours saved that was originally planed for in said office. When in reality the union would have constructed the whole plan including walk design, attendence patterns etc. The local manager will take all the credit for a sucssefull implementation when infact if a deal is struck it will be the union that solves the problems on the shop floor.

The only way forward is joint working I was recently invited to a meeting with a senior/middle manager without my DOM, when I asked was he not present because me and him may agree over certain things. The answer was that he's opnion lacked any value.

You are totally right, junior and middle management are frightened to tell senior management that their plans are not working due to the fear of being demoted or shipped-out. About ten or more years ago some old style managers would have told management where to stick their plans but these new managers they have got nowadays are going to destory RM because they do not speak-up.

[F0zziebear]

Hi,

When referring to jobs for jobs sake I was not inferring that necessarily to frontline staff, especially in DO's. However, I would argue during my time on the frontline that questions marked were raised about the productivity of the night shift, and people finishing at 10:30am be it posties or drivers suggested something was not right, either in terms of balance per round/drive or the total number of staff needed to deliver the mail in that particular area.

Senior management do have a strategy by the way. I know what it is and have expressed it here in brief detail. Having a strategy does mean it is either the right one, or that they are capable of implementing it, or re-directing their resources from the existing approach to the new one. There are countless books on this subject. The only thing I would say is that there are enough senior managers who have got the books, t-shirts etc. to know how it is supposed to be done.

Also please note that when frontline staff have been on strike for the last several years people from other parts of the business have gone on the frontline to deliver mail. This includes senior managers be it sorting, driving, distributing and delivering. People from IT. HR, Marketing, Finance, Legal, and Ops HQ have all done this, so to say they have no idea about the frontline is not correct. Whether they fully appreciate the demands being put on yourselves as frontline employees is less certain.

[Big Daz]

Whether they fully appreciate the demands being put on yourselves as frontline employees is less certain.

So how do we rectify that?

Also in term of working your way up, it seems that you can only go so far before you grind to a halt.

How would I as a front line postie at 34 years old get to the board before I retire?

The Cadet scheme hasnt exactly been a roaring success, perhaps RM were simply paying lip service to the requirement to have a training scheme in place?