Royal Mail’s new machines going to waste, says CWU

[pickaname]

Pay and Mod was 2 years ago and we havent seen any automation in our office bar some pda's for drivers that have already had to be replaced 3 times. The trouble with all types of tech is it never lasts and when you go down that route youre constantly spending to keep it up to date or to fix it. I thought a pen and paper worked pretty well tbh.

No wonder RM is in trouble. They secure a huge loan from their "shareholder" (the govt, lol) and it takes 3 years + to spend it.

They say the union are blocking modernisation...im of the opinion Royal Mail bosses are wholly incompetent.

[Midge]

Ahebban"]Tman ... are you seriously suggesting that RM would allow issues of 'seniority' or 'lack of automation understanding' in preventing installation and implementation of any new equipment that will ensure profit-margins are maximised given the dire monetary forecasts for RM generally, and letters specificially

No, and I never implied it either. Read it again.

RM is under intense internal and public scrutiny to justify its current regime in reference to the modernisation programme. The longer it delays introduction of new technology weakens its argument of efficiency and modernisation needs, not strengthen it.

Maybe so, but these installation programs often ovver-run badly, and for many diverse reasons. Remember the IMP program? CFCs back in the early 90's? OCR/VCS? Need I go on? The reasons aren't always political or CWU issues.

Whilst I do not have access to the technical data etc in respect of new technology use within RM, I have followed the RM/CWU press releases, trade papers, websites, forums etc in respect of the matter.
The conclusion that I draw thus far is that the cart is very much before the horse.

Maybe your "conclusions" are based on flawed data and/or assumptions, though? There aren't always "darker forces" at work. Sometimes the reasons for "slippage" are quite mundane.....

And yet, whether there are particular 'teething problems' with the machines right now, or not: the the plan is to introduce 1000 plus across the country (machines in large D.O.s sorting and prepping mail for that office and 3 or 4 other D.O.s, or in Mail Centres sorting and prepping mail for all their local D.O.s).

The effect in Delivery Offices will be the wholesale slaughter of full-time jobs, and cuts in part-time contract hours, as there will be sod all IPS and Prep to do compared with now.

That is why Royal Mail want to get the system working so badly. That is why they went for the machines in the first place.

There is nothing, certainly nothing in principle, stopping the Dutch Model of a part-time and casualised delivery workforce being applied in this country, whether or not the effect of this 'modernisation' will be to make deliveries later yet again. Nothing except the fact that the CWU and CWU members have something to say about the threat of losing so many full-time jobs.

So, they might well have all these machines stacked away gathering dust. They might not have sorted out the teething problems. But they will definitely have to 'sort out' the CWU opposition to a jobs massacre before they can bring in the machines.

Funny, but that sounds like exactly where we are right now...we have to force them to negotiate modernisation with the CWU, or they will do it by dictat.

More specifically, we have to make damned sure that we get a share of the efficiency savings brought by automation: in the form of a Shorter Working Week.

[Tman]

The effect in Delivery Offices will be the wholesale slaughter of full-time jobs, and cuts in part-time contract hours, as there will be sod all IPS and Prep to do compared with now.
That is why Royal Mail want to get the system working so badly. That is why they went for the machines in the first place.

True, but that's been the reasoning behind automation since the idea was first conceived.

There is nothing, certainly nothing in principle, stopping the Dutch Model of a part-time and casualised delivery workforce being applied in this country, whether or not the effect of this 'modernisation' will be to make deliveries later yet again. Nothing except the fact that the CWU and CWU members have something to say about the threat of losing so many full-time jobs.
So, they might well have all these machines stacked away gathering dust. They might not have sorted out the teething problems. But they will definitely have to 'sort out' the CWU opposition to a jobs massacre before they can bring in the machines.

That particular ship has sailed long since. The CWU has had it's head firmly up it's 'arris (where automation is concerned) ever since the first ALF was installed in Southampton many years ago. Instead of realising that progress is inevitable and negotiating better deals on that basis, they've done their best to stone-wall any changes whenever it's been found necessary, but usually only succeeded in compromise deals benefitting no-one.
Sadly (for existing FT staff) there are now too many PTimers and agency staff only too willing to work through any strike, and when they return to work the strikers will have to accept that these CSS machines are here to stay.
Doubtless the same old keyboard warriors will spout the same old Left Wing rhetoric, but ultimately that changes nothing.
RM will probably welcome a long bitter and protracted strike; Christmas is only nineteen weeks away and nothing focuses strikers' minds more than no money at Christmas, plus Joe Public won't be quite so pro-"those poor posties" when the cards don't arrive.
Looks like the CWU have sleep-walked into yet another PR (and strike) cock-up.

[spilie]

usual speech tman the usual right wing views of modernise or die, yes change is coming and yes we will lose jobs to machines but then you and your right wing buddies will whinge when all these people who have lost thier jobs and lost hours claim welfare help, then the machines that are now doing work might pay NI and TAX oh what a wonderful world your forward thinking modernists have created, yous fu**ed up the transport system, yous f**ked up the gas and electricity and now because of the great swindle jobs are as scarce as honest tories!!! but then thats the way your kind like it .......

[Tman]

As I said, spout the same old nonsense.....and someone does, right on cue.

[norbert]

Ahebban"]Tman ... are you seriously suggesting that RM would allow issues of 'seniority' or 'lack of automation understanding' in preventing installation and implementation of any new equipment that will ensure profit-margins are maximised given the dire monetary forecasts for RM generally, and letters specificially

No, and I never implied it either. Read it again.

RM is under intense internal and public scrutiny to justify its current regime in reference to the modernisation programme. The longer it delays introduction of new technology weakens its argument of efficiency and modernisation needs, not strengthen it.

Maybe so, but these installation programs often ovver-run badly, and for many diverse reasons. Remember the IMP program? CFCs back in the early 90's? OCR/VCS? Need I go on? The reasons aren't always political or CWU issues.

Whilst I do not have access to the technical data etc in respect of new technology use within RM, I have followed the RM/CWU press releases, trade papers, websites, forums etc in respect of the matter.
The conclusion that I draw thus far is that the cart is very much before the horse.

Maybe your "conclusions" are based on flawed data and/or assumptions, though? There aren't always "darker forces" at work. Sometimes the reasons for "slippage" are quite mundane.....

And yet, whether there are particular 'teething problems' with the machines right now, or not: the the plan is to introduce 1000 plus across the country (machines in large D.O.s sorting and prepping mail for that office and 3 or 4 other D.O.s, or in Mail Centres sorting and prepping mail for all their local D.O.s).

The effect in Delivery Offices will be the wholesale slaughter of full-time jobs, and cuts in part-time contract hours, as there will be sod all IPS and Prep to do compared with now.

That is why Royal Mail want to get the system working so badly. That is why they went for the machines in the first place.

There is nothing, certainly nothing in principle, stopping the Dutch Model of a part-time and casualised delivery workforce being applied in this country, whether or not the effect of this 'modernisation' will be to make deliveries later yet again. Nothing except the fact that the CWU and CWU members have something to say about the threat of losing so many full-time jobs.

So, they might well have all these machines stacked away gathering dust. They might not have sorted out the teething problems. But they will definitely have to 'sort out' the CWU opposition to a jobs massacre before they can bring in the machines.

Funny, but that sounds like exactly where we are right now...we have to force them to negotiate modernisation with the CWU, or they will do it by dictat.

More specifically, we have to make damned sure that we get a share of the efficiency savings brought by automation: in the form of a Shorter Working Week.

good post - pity that it can't be used to get through to some people on the sc**.co.uk forum

[axeman]

Tman and his paperless society what we have seen since computerisation in many aspects in our daily lives is ........yes everything takes longer
good as they are the only real use for them is to collect data and process it hence the name of the computer engine ' procesor'.
Evrey machine iv'e seen within royal fail is lets say average missort levels are a joke amongst the delivery staff as tman mentioned and tried to apportion blame on the dino's in royal mail with snide comments about senoirity.... tough tman you have to put up with it but i supose as a mech manager it's quite frustrating if your throughput is not what it should be ............ not a fault with the machine is it ???

[Tman]

Give it up Agent. You're getting desperate now.

[Bouncing Souls]

posted by Tman
As Dingo says above, the machines themselves work fine, but RM junior managers (normally posties two months before ) have a long and proud tradition of not understanding how to make the best use of automation,


Are you implying that the Posties who move over to management are not properly trained up then by Royal Mails management?
Surely then this problem lies with the training of new managers and the management course they go on, which is provided by Royal Mail.
If this is the case then maybe it should be highlighted as a flaw in the management training system and something which needs to be addressed?

[Tman]

Errr, what "management training system"?

[pickaname]

Tman, you are clearly deluded.

Its not the CWU blocking modernisation - its Royal Mail.

Where is the automation? I dont see any and i doubt i'll see any for a while yet.

All i hear is talk of PDA's for walking posties, walk sequencing machines and trolleys instead of bikes but i dont see any progress. Theres no evidence other than boardroom minutes that this will create the necessary savings anyway.

The FACT is the job has been done for decades even centuries in an efficient and productive manner and only when right wing, private sector sucking profiteers get in on the act does the system and company to boot get in to difficulty. And they are the very ones who are charged with saving the firm.

Oh the irony.

[Tman]

pickaname"]Tman, you are clearly deluded.
Its not the CWU blocking modernisation - its Royal Mail.
Where is the automation? I dont see any and i doubt i'll see any for a while yet

.

Me deluded? That last sentence alone shows you haven't got much of a clue. Go to any MC and look around. Automation's been in RM for 40+ years now.

All i hear is talk of PDA's for walking posties, walk sequencing machines and trolleys instead of bikes but i dont see any progress. Theres no evidence other than boardroom minutes that this will create the necessary savings anyway.

Think you'll find automation has been recognised as "creating the necessary savings" since Henry Ford's time. Or do you think they still build Fiestas etc by hand.....

Oh the irony.

Oh the apparent ignorance.

[borders]

obviously he is talking about the new automation that we have been promised or are you just being your normal pedantic self ?

[Tman]

Some poster's level of understanding of what goes on in RM never ceases to amaze, though. You may see it as pedantic, but you can't be sure of what he really meant.
I mean, some people still quote from the Socialist Worker in the belief that it's real...

[baldrick]

And some people quote from the RM propaganda in the belief that it's real.