BBC PANORAMA DISCUSSION THREAD

[Exrep]

Dingo you havnt but many of us reps on here have been told by our area reps that this is the future of R/M.

If a feckin ex-marine whos at his peak physical fitness finds a 3.5 hr delivery span finds it un-realistic to do this 5 days a week what hope do we have if what we have been told becomes reality. I think maybe your taking some of the comments a bit personal just take them with a pinch of salt.

[Big Daz]

Monkeyboy


It was the pace needed to do the individual delivery in 3hours 36 mins that was the issue.

The delivery performed by the ex marine is clearly NOT a 3.5 hour delivery based on a acheivable walking speed and checking mail before delivery/knocking on doors and writing 739 cards.

[fishtank]

"In addition it is accepted that unless you have park and loop in your office the ability to move much past 3.5 hours is differcult maybe the maxiumn without the right equipment being in place will be 4 hours."


I'm sorry dingo,maybe it's just me but that statement is an agreement to longer delivery spans.
I could not care less if offices have been stupid enough to increase their delivery spans ,with the unions blessing i presume.
If an office votes at local level to increase the span to 4hrs without the right equipment in place this should be vetoed at area level.
Voting at local level is not always as representative as it might be.
P/T members looking for F/T hours will ignore the H&S implications of longer spans.
All members and non-members deserve protection against unrealistic workloads.

[smokerjim]

"In addition it is accepted that unless you have park and loop in your office the ability to move much past 3.5 hours is differcult maybe the maxiumn without the right equipment being in place will be 4 hours."


I'm sorry dingo,maybe it's just me but that statement is an agreement to longer delivery spans.
I could not care less if offices have been stupid enough to increase their delivery spans ,with the unions blessing i presume.
If an office votes at local level to increase the span to 4hrs without the right equipment in place this should be vetoed at area level.
Voting at local level is not always as representative as it might be.
P/T members looking for F/T hours will ignore the H&S implications of longer spans.
All members and non-members deserve protection against unrealistic workloads.

Spot on - I'm PT, ( 35hrs ) but I feel the same aches and creaks as anyone else, so I would ignore any longer delivery span for a FT job.....but I doubt my colleagues on 25hrs would feel the same if given the offer - and I wouldn't blame them either!

[fishtank]

Monkeyboy


It was the pace needed to do the individual delivery in 3hours 36 mins that was the issue.

The delivery performed by the ex marine is clearly NOT a 3.5 hour delivery based on a acheivable walking speed and checking mail before delivery/knocking on doors and writing 739 cards.

Fair enough Daz,but the implications for a 50year old even walking at 2.5-3mph for 4hours for 5 days a week would be even greater.

[upmyroad]

The thing is dingo everything we striked for you now tell us is going to happen. The only defferance is the CWU is collaborating with R/M. Is that what we striked for , not better conditions but for the union to help R/M screw us .

[Big Daz]

Monkeyboy


It was the pace needed to do the individual delivery in 3hours 36 mins that was the issue.

The delivery performed by the ex marine is clearly NOT a 3.5 hour delivery based on a acheivable walking speed and checking mail before delivery/knocking on doors and writing 739 cards.

Fair enough Daz,but the implications for a 50year old even walking at 2.5-3mph for 4hours for 5 days a week would be even greater.

Im my utopia older delivery postworkers drop down their hours with no loss of pay.

[DirtyHarry]

Im my utopia older delivery postworkers drop down their hours with no loss of pay.

Trouble is, it's Crozier's, Higson's, and Tolhurst's Utopia, that our union seems hell-bent on propelling us into.

[AnotherLimey]

Dingo you keep saying the union is not agreeing a longer delivery span yet you also say longer spans will be open to local agreement?

like i said before i've walked the street for 21 years now and have a possible 26 years to carry on doing so, i'm telling you now there is no way what so ever my body will take it with longer spans period!

STOP this bullshit now Dingo, for gods sake make a rule for all, not one office has 3.5 hours on the road and another 4.5, we are all humans and some may be 18 years of age and others 67 (New goverment retirement age)

We need a span that is fair for all not some silly agreement that fooks over one office while another is fine, i cant tell you how angry i am being left to local agreement Dingo, i'm furios!

We need a solid agreement that says 3.5 is a maxamim span no matter how it effects full time jobs, lets keep those that are left full time in a doable job rather that protect full time jobs and make our life hell in the future, it may sound selfish but there are many in my office that want EVR, Let them go and bring in partimers if needed, but let us fulltimers have a decent job now and in the future

[DirtyHarry]

Dingo,
the bottom line is..............There isn't a cat-in-hell's chance of local, or even national reps, selling a deal which includes an option for RM to introduce longer delivery spans, yes, I know you say it'll be only if we're daft enough to agree locally to longer delivery spans, but I don't think you guys know what type of dishonest, unscrupulous rats, you're dealing with, I really don't, and a 35hr week with no paid meal relief, to us, the members who will have to live daily with the consequences.

The union must take into consideration that we have members struggling with their current workloads, and with a 3.5hr delivery span, and many, many of them. Giving RM a foot in the door, as regards a 5hr delivery span, is ridiculous, and very short-sighted, and above all else, negligent.

I ask again, would you want to do 5hrs out in the freezing cold, heavy rain, 70 plus degree heat, or whatever else mother nature decides to throw at us? I bet you wouldn't, and quite right too.
A good leader never asks of his men, something he himself would run a million miles away from.

[smokerjim]

Dingo, a strong office with a strong rep will always choose the delivery span that suits it, weak offices ( or even weak reps ) can be pressured into agreeing whatever suits RM - then the strong reps and offices will be pressured into doing what RM wants ( "These neighbouring offices are doing it, why don't you want it?" etc ) in the hope that in a moment of weakness it will be brought in - what you may have forgotten is a strong union needs to be is strong ALL the time, RM only need to be lucky ONCE because under current mgmt attitudes as soon as a change is made it will never go back, terms & conditions will worsen, and their deterioration will be maintained and exacerbated.

I believe this is the theme running through this thread - please pass this on to your contacts higher up in the union food chain

[DirtyHarry]

Dingo you keep saying the union is not agreeing a longer delivery span yet you also say longer spans will be open to local agreement?

like i said before i've walked the street for 21 years now and have a possible 26 years to carry on doing so, i'm telling you now there is no way what so ever my body will take it with longer spans period!

STOP this bullshit now Dingo, for gods sake make a rule for all, not one office has 3.5 hours on the road and another 4.5, we are all humans and some may be 18 years of age and others 67 (New goverment retirement age)

We need a span that is fair for all not some silly agreement that fooks over one office while another is fine, i cant tell you how angry i am being left to local agreement Dingo, i'm furios!

We need a solid agreement that says 3.5 is a maxamim span no matter how it effects full time jobs, lets keep those that are left full time in a doable job rather that protect full time jobs and make our life hell in the future, it may sound selfish but there are many in my office that want EVR, Let them go and bring in partimers if needed, but let us fulltimers have a decent job now and in the future

Well said, brother.

[DirtyHarry]

Dingo, a strong office with a strong rep will always choose the delivery span that suits it, weak offices ( or even weak reps ) can be pressured into agreeing whatever suits RM - then the strong reps and offices will be pressured into doing what RM wants ( "These neighbouring offices are doing it, why don't you want it?" etc ) in the hope that in a moment of weakness it will be brought in - what you may have forgotten is a strong union needs to be is strong ALL the time, RM only need to be lucky ONCE because under current mgmt attitudes as soon as a change is made it will never go back, terms & conditions will worsen, and their deterioration will be maintained and exacerbated.

I believe this is the theme running through this thread - please pass this on to your contacts higher up in the union food chain

Well said, brother. Let's hope he does so, asap.

[upmyroad]

I am afraid dingo is not listening to US the members. He like the rest of the union are out of touch and they have their own agenda. Work us untill we drop. Just as long as they get their weekly subs.

[axeman]

'dingo' i hope the likes of billy boy and wardy understand that no one wants to go over the 3 1/2 hr span but have been forced to because of the debacle the 2007 p&m agreement. now if your talking park & loop going into excess of 4hrs why should the likes of me and others go and grovel to some local business to use there toilet facilities...it's royal fails problem and must take precedent over time we are expected to be out on the road !! big big issue as far as i'm concerned it has to have a proper solution not a fudged up one like local agreements produce it has to be addressed nationaly and thought through after all we are the ones out on the road day after day