IT'S A YES VOTE

[hackedoff]

I would love to stand and try to make a difference but noone knows me

[BELIAL]

Well the way I feel at the moment I`m resigning as sub rep.

I`m not prepared to support p!ss weak willed scumbags who can`t see further than the bottom of their wallets....

A sad sad day...BLACK TUESDAY...................

I can just see all the propaganda bullsh!t being rolled out over the next 2 or 3 days from :lfo & :cfo not to mention Billy 20 bellies & Co.............

As I sit here I`m really tempted to just throw in the towel with the union and save my 50-60 quid a year and go it alone, quite capable of fighting my own battles against the Dums.............

I don't think you are alone. On a purely personal note, in my DO the rep and his no.2 have already stated their intention to pack in their membership given this outcome. They did this to allow any possible replacements time to sus out the role, there were no takers. A sad day but it does appear that our office will become non-union, bet it's not the only one.

With such defeatism in your office it is little wonder there'll be no one brave enough to take on the job. I assumed, wrongly, you held a reps position. Whilst I disagree with a large amount of what you say and the way you say it, at least you have something to say!!! Looks like you should give the Reps job a go but I suggest you leave the more colorful language for the pub - second thoughts probably best to bite your lip.

So, are you up for it?

It's rarely wise to make assumptions and you continue to do so.
Defeatism in my office ,well fair do's yep a completely defeated demoralised and demotivated membership as a result of this agreement.Am I willing to reproduce all the effort and hard work that was required to build concensus for this dispute,don't think so.
You can stick your suggestions though, but I'm pleased I introduced some colour.

[k979aaa]

Look it up ,i think its in the euro laws on the 40 hour working week.I thought you would of realised this.

what the hell have euro laws got to do with our national agreements.

Read the agreement mate. 40 hr week will not change!!!

PHASE 4 :JOINT WORKING GROUP 2: "THE GROUP WILL ALSO CONSIDER HOW TO IMPLEMENT MONTHLY PAY. IT WILL ALSO REVIEW ANNUALISED HOURS OR BANKED HOURS" IT SOUNDS TO ME THIS FAILED AGREEMENT HAS ALREADY CONCEDED THIS AND MENY OTHER THING'S FOR WANT OF A BETTER WORD SHAFTED!.

Reviewing annualised hours doesn't mean its been conceded! Maybe its time to move away from attacking the agreement. Now the vote has been cast we ALL have this as part of our terms and conditions.

Our efforts should be spent on making the best of this situation and sharing best practices

I will give you my best practices (no spannish one's here) if you give them an inch they will take a mile do not give them an 1/8 of an inch. Royalmail may try to move the goalposts esp this man :cfo for let's not forget the scotsmen at the old wembely stadium we still have not found them yet give us back our goalpost's. And here is one more never trust a sale'sman :lfo .NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL BEST PRACTICE.

[wolfie citizen smith]

We're doomed!!!

No we're not. We've lost this vote, but we can bring things around to our way just by doing the job properly. Don't work a single second without pay and don't carry a bag which is one gramme overweight. I won't be covering anyone elses delivery, and neither will anyone else with more than two brain cells.

listen to IWW comrades, i told you from the begining "let the fiddle begin"
50,000 people did not vote "yer right"

[norbet colon]

In my opinion, the ballot was 'fixed' if you think about exactly who this really affects i.e. the Delivery postman, i bet you will find that the majority of us voted NO, however, this was a ballot for ALL members in the CWU as is right and proper within a democratic trade union. However, i believe that there are more members in mail centers/distribution, etc who saw the fictional 6.9% and thought "yep, I'll have that before xmas thank you very much".
So, as usual the delivery postman, the front line face of Royal Mail, the men and women who suffer more than most the comments from the public and inept management have been shafted yet again.
I think it's disgraceful that the majority of members who bothered to vote or should that be the 'minority'? didn't think beyond there pockets and thought more about the long term future of this company and their jobs.

My anger is directed at the 46000 people who didn't even bother to vote. There weren't 46000 people working during the strikes, so why would anyone who went on strike not use their vote ??? I do not understand people like that

I won't pass comment on your allegation that delivery guys have been shafted by mail centers/distribution, because I voted NO and arguments of that nature play right into the hands of Leighton & Crozier who would just love it if the union descends into recriminations and loads of members leaving the CWU. They would have achieved what they set out to do, finish the union as a fighting force ! ( END QUOTE)





NEW QUOTE
there is a lot of "it doesn't affect me , it's nothing to do with me " in MC's -DC's , however that's exactly what L&C were planning , so they'd to conceed a bit to Brown but there's more than one way of skinning a cat.

All RM have done is what many companies do anyway and that's deliberate delaying tactics & the usual three card trick of bringing something unacceptable at the eleventh hour or when it suits them orchestrate things .Too near christmas and a too long dispute , Billy 10 Bellies & Dave I'll get you £400 seem to be strike weary .

RM would have prefered to play the Thatcher V Scargill game on thier terms but this reminds me of the Unison Dispute , ironically Unison probably have a better pension deal

Souless , Greedy , divided places those MC's , it's 2003 all over again and the CWU will have to rely on London & Scotland to bail them out with unofficial IA ,or 1992 with the hostages to fortune over tax cuts with the Tories winning the election,Unfortunately it's democracy , that's life , at least LOVEJOY posted the result before the union & the media .

What makes me laugh about the yes voters is many of these mail centres are badly run and half these managers will be railroading dodgy stuff through with no agreement , purely to impress Senior & Area or to keep them away .

So there'll be a lot of squaking staff moaning as soon as they're on Cof C or AP , but they did take the bribe and you get nothing for nothing.

As for leaving the union , that's exactly what RM want & they won't EVEN TRY to make their dodgy disciplinaries look"straight ."as these overgrown school bullies will smell blood.

I'm afraid there will be a few years of trench warfare now , the goalposts will be moved and plenty of reps and activists suspended .

there is that what's all this s*** then from the union? mentality and not bothering to vote , it's hardly much trouble , all those poor buggers in the world who can't vote or have to vote for someone in banana republics .




NEXT QUOTE
Anyway, even if your theory were correct, it follows that around 23000 of those that didn't vote at all must be in deliveries. If they'd been @rsed to vote, then 23000 additional No votes could have swung the result. Not voting at all when your whole working life could be dramatically changed is absolutely unforgivable in my opinion

[andy2007]

First, I would like to point out that dispite what some people may think. The agreement DOES effect everyone, regardless of where you work. There may be sections of it that aren't relevant to your workplace, but there ARE OTHER SECTIONS THAT ARE!

Second, the reason that you aren't hearing from people who voted yes, either on here, or in person. Is because they are too scared of the reaction that they will get. Just look back on earlier Posts by yes voters, and the way they were treated.

Even Lovejoy, who is so often praised (and quite rightly too!), was the subject of some very nasty comments, when he was trying to put forward his arguments for voting yes. Not many people have the guts to stand up for their beliefs, in the face of such a reaction from their peers.

Personally, I voted NO, and I have made my reasons for doing so, very plain. Both here, and at work.

However, I do know of several people, who did say that they would be voting yes where I work. They actually think, that because we are at an RDC, which runs 24 hours, that the agreement won't effect them! But more importantly, the majority of my collegues VOTED NO!

[steve jones]

Well the way I feel at the moment I`m resigning as sub rep.

I`m not prepared to support p!ss weak willed scumbags who can`t see further than the bottom of their wallets....

A sad sad day...BLACK TUESDAY...................

I can just see all the propaganda bullsh!t being rolled out over the next 2 or 3 days from :lfo & :cfo not to mention Billy 20 bellies & Co.............

As I sit here I`m really tempted to just throw in the towel with the union and save my 50-60 quid a year and go it alone, quite capable of fighting my own battles against the Dums.............

I don't think you are alone. On a purely personal note, in my DO the rep and his no.2 have already stated their intention to pack in their membership given this outcome. They did this to allow any possible replacements time to sus out the role, there were no takers. A sad day but it does appear that our office will become non-union, bet it's not the only one.

With such defeatism in your office it is little wonder there'll be no one brave enough to take on the job. I assumed, wrongly, you held a reps position. Whilst I disagree with a large amount of what you say and the way you say it, at least you have something to say!!! Looks like you should give the Reps job a go but I suggest you leave the more colorful language for the pub - second thoughts probably best to bite your lip.

So, are you up for it?

It's rarely wise to make assumptions and you continue to do so.
Defeatism in my office ,well fair do's yep a completely defeated demoralised and demotivated membership as a result of this agreement.Am I willing to reproduce all the effort and hard work that was required to build concensus for this dispute,don't think so.
You can stick your suggestions though, but I'm pleased I introduced some colour.

Is BLACK a colour!

[L Tommo]

BLACK IS A SHADE. NOT A COLOUR...

So its PINK TUESDAY.... (big al's shirt)


bastards!!! RED our faces and YELLOW billy n daves backs...


OUT :cfo :lfo

[mailsort6]

A yes vote means that they will probably be more unoffical action, just give it time. This is what happened with The Way Forward, alot of posties that voted yes realised they had made a big mistake.

[meweavy]

A yes vote means that they will probably be more unoffical action, just give it time. This is what happened with The Way Forward, alot of posties that voted yes realised they had made a big mistake.

i can see there being unofficial action from the off.

the minute all the doms who refuse to go back to normal saturdays regardless of the national agreement will force every office to go on an unofficial..

and whatever else royal mail will now throw at us door to door payments etc..from now on it will be unofficial strikes left right and centre..

after the way the cwu have treated us..i expect unofficial action will be the only way..as they have shown they couldnt give 2 f***s for us or our jobs..well not the cwu but the 2 sitting at the top of the cwu..

[blackadder]

im shocked and staggerd that a yes vote was announced, if u look on here its gota be 9 out of 10 who vote no. and as for 46,000 not voting, now that i dont believe. somewhere theres been a right old stich up involving us and now whats gona happen. 40,000 laid off for starters, times to suit the managers and the pension gone to the wall. just how did they get a yes vote is beyond me

[dvbuk55]

A yes vote means that they will probably be more unoffical action, just give it time. This is what happened with The Way Forward, alot of posties that voted yes realised they had made a big mistake.

Well it looks like they made the same mistake again

[chayoliver]

In my opinion, the ballot was 'fixed' if you think about exactly who this really affects i.e. the Delivery postman, i bet you will find that the majority of us voted NO, however, this was a ballot for ALL members in the CWU as is right and proper within a democratic trade union. However, i believe that there are more members in mail centers/distribution, etc who saw the fictional 6.9% and thought "yep, I'll have that before xmas thank you very much".
So, as usual the delivery postman, the front line face of Royal Mail, the men and women who suffer more than most the comments from the public and inept management have been shafted yet again.
I think it's disgraceful that the majority of members who bothered to vote or should that be the 'minority'? didn't think beyond there pockets and thought more about the long term future of this company and their jobs.

My anger is directed at the 46000 people who didn't even bother to vote. There weren't 46000 people working during the strikes, so why would anyone who went on strike not use their vote ??? I do not understand people like that

I won't pass comment on your allegation that delivery guys have been shafted by mail centers/distribution, because I voted NO and arguments of that nature play right into the hands of Leighton & Crozier who would just love it if the union descends into recriminations and loads of members leaving the CWU. They would have achieved what they set out to do, finish the union as a fighting force !

Anyway, even if your theory were correct, it follows that around 23000 of those that didn't vote at all must be in deliveries. If they'd been @rsed to vote, then 23000 additional No votes could have swung the result. Not voting at all when your whole working life could be dramatically changed is absolutely unforgivable in my opinion

Totally agree to many people blaming drivers and mail centres for the yes vote we were solid as a no vote at our office amongst the drivers anyway i blame the rural delivery offices only my opinion

[theflyingpostman]

I don't think blaming any sector over the vote will achieve anything.

I can remember when the "way forward" agreement was voted in. At the time I was working in a Mail Centre (I now work in deliveries) and was very peeved off with the vote.

This agreement killed of Night Allowance (NDA) on overtime payments. For a lot of people in our Mail Centre (especially the A.G.'s) this was a good way of bumping up your wage to something acceptable. Especially if you did the Friday Night/Saturday morning shift as you got the Saturday Premium rate as well.

The point I'm trying to make is a lot of the Mail Centre staff at the time seem to blame the Delivery Offices for voting in that agreement (especially the smaller offices) as these tend to have the least overtime available compared to the M.C. so they had more to gain by voting for it.

[Night Tonic]

Thats it, blame everyone and anyone and give RM bosses plenty to laugh at today. Fact is, most of the union voted YES. End of story.