4th November strike: this is the big one

[borders]

His point is very clear to me, and makes perfect sense too.
I don't go along with all the cobblers "this is about Capitalism vs the Labour, etc etc", and speaking to the average RM employee, they don't give two wossnames for all that old Wolfie Smith clap-trap either.
This strike is (allegedly) about future terms and conditions, not another rehash of Class War or fought for the stale political beliefs of a few.
Personally I think the CWU were out-smarted by the government over privatisation and now have to give it the big 'uns to save face with it's membership, the problem being that there doesn't seem much real appetite for a strike, and so if "not enough" employees strike then the perceived power of the CWU will be weakened in the eyes of the new incoming "ownership".

To propose that any firm would/will guarantee T&Cs for X number of years is naive to say the least. Even the three years on offer is more than generous, when many employees merely get told, "three months notice that you're now on this rate of pay or this new contract, etc".
Choose your fights, as the old maxim goes.

nice to see you have woken up from your slumber , totally agree with your 3rd paragraph , the RM have always been one step ahead of the CWU.

[pcb]

In 3 years Royal Mail will be able to give 45 days notice to change your working conditions, ie remove first 3 days sick leave pay, annualised hours, reduce to 28 days annual leave, unpaid breaks and worst of all those who unfortunately are under EA will be seen as a economical liability, So these are some of the reasons I will be standing out on the picket line come 4th Nov 13.
So think it over and choose your FIGHT! If not now then when!
The fact that £300 has been offered to induce workers to cross the picket line shows only contempt and a total lack of understanding of the issues. Those who choose to take the bribe will have only themselves to blame when there is no one there to stand up for them when the cost equation comes into play!
Ostriches!
It will never happen to me!
I'm alright with my lot ( forgetting all fought for and won by the CWU)

[Brain Fury]

In 3 years Royal Mail will be able to give 45 days notice to change your working conditions, ie remove first 3 days sick leave pay, annualised hours, reduce to 28 days annual leave, unpaid breaks and worst of all those who unfortunately are under EA will be seen as a economical liability, So these are some of the reasons I will be standing out on the picket line come 4th Nov 13.
So think it over and choose your FIGHT! If not now then when!
The fact that £300 has been offered to induce workers to cross the picket line shows only contempt and a total lack of understanding of the issues. Those who choose to take the bribe will have only themselves to blame when there is no one there to stand up for them when the cost equation comes into play!
Ostriches!
It will never happen to me!
I'm alright with my lot ( forgetting all fought for and won by the CWU)

If they could do all that in three years, could they do it now or next year?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

In 3 years Royal Mail will be able to give 45 days notice to change your working conditions, ie remove first 3 days sick leave pay, annualised hours, reduce to 28 days annual leave, unpaid breaks and worst of all those who unfortunately are under EA will be seen as a economical liability, So these are some of the reasons I will be standing out on the picket line come 4th Nov 13.
So think it over and choose your FIGHT! If not now then when!
The fact that £300 has been offered to induce workers to cross the picket line shows only contempt and a total lack of understanding of the issues. Those who choose to take the bribe will have only themselves to blame when there is no one there to stand up for them when the cost equation comes into play!
Ostriches!
It will never happen to me!
I'm alright with my lot ( forgetting all fought for and won by the CWU)

Yes - so its better to rip the plaster off now rather than when they actually try to impose the changes. By then the Union will really be on the back foot and the battle would be a lot more painful and lot longer in duration.

If they could do all that in three years, could they do it now or next year?

[Brain Fury]

In 3 years Royal Mail will be able to give 45 days notice to change your working conditions, ie remove first 3 days sick leave pay, annualised hours, reduce to 28 days annual leave, unpaid breaks and worst of all those who unfortunately are under EA will be seen as a economical liability, So these are some of the reasons I will be standing out on the picket line come 4th Nov 13.
So think it over and choose your FIGHT! If not now then when!
The fact that £300 has been offered to induce workers to cross the picket line shows only contempt and a total lack of understanding of the issues. Those who choose to take the bribe will have only themselves to blame when there is no one there to stand up for them when the cost equation comes into play!
Ostriches!
It will never happen to me!
I'm alright with my lot ( forgetting all fought for and won by the CWU)

Yes - so its better to rip the plaster off now rather than when they actually try to impose the changes. By then the Union will really be on the back foot and the battle would be a lot more painful and lot longer in duration.

If they could do all that in three years, could they do it now or next year?

It sometimes feels like the proposal of 3 years protection has made things worse than if it had never been suggested. It's as if it has merely focussed attention on the possibility that t&cs might change at some time. My point was that surely 3 years protection is a good thing not a negative as it often seems to be portrayed here.

[DirtyHarry]

Think again if you want to go with more than one day a week strikes let alone all out. Workers have mortgages to pay and bills to pay. You might have a council house but some of us will lose our homes

We're all struggling with paying our mortgages/rents, bills, feeding/clothing our families, and that's on the pay rates we are currently on, we lose this battle for the want of a little sacrifice, and our struggles will get a lot harder.
We must show the establishment that we won't go down without one hell of a fight. We must show them that if they want to grind us in the dust, it will cost them bigtime.
If we don't, a lot of us will lose our homes anyway.
I just hope and pray that the CWU doesn't sell us out, AGAIN. But we must at least try.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Think again if you want to go with more than one day a week strikes let alone all out. Workers have mortgages to pay and bills to pay. You might have a council house but some of us will lose our homes

We're all struggling with paying our mortgages/rents, bills, feeding/clothing our families, and that's on the pay rates we are currently on, we lose this battle for the want of a little sacrifice, and our struggles will get a lot harder.
We must show the establishment that we won't go down without one hell of a fight. We must show them that if they want to grind us in the dust, it will cost them bigtime.
If we don't, a lot of us will lose our homes anyway.
I just hope and pray that the CWU doesn't sell us out, AGAIN. But we must at least try.

I think this is a fight that the union is fully aware that it cannot lose, because if it does, the union will be all but finished.
It can't also do what it did last time, and accept something that most would be unhappy with.

[bluealbert]

Could some clever person Explain to me ,what a 1 day strike on a Monday at the start of the week with 14 days notice will achieve except grief for all on delivery.

Also the overall turnout looks low to me 63 per cent ,what is the percentage of mail center staff employed by the Company and delivery staff.?
As usual see nothing our present Union leaders are doing will acheive any thing .

We need fresh blood in the top with fresh ideas,
after being on the Picket lines 4 years ago and fighting for a fairer deal ,then these 2 Clowns and the Tuc got us quote "the deal of the century"
now we can have on a occasions 6 d2d no pay and have to take them to houses we have not got mail for and 90 seconds to deliver packets per house and even larger walks ,whilst the non Deliverey staff get the same pay for nothing Some deal!!

And now we are expected to suppourt these CLOWNS .!

Spot on mate.f***ing clowns the lot of them

[stokes11eg]

Sadly, it seems the Union always almost call strikes near Christmas, then they get round the table, then come back and say it's all sorted. Usually witn no benefit to the workers. I truly beleive that are only calling one now, as the writint is on the wall for THEM--let's be honest, how many folks will be in R/M employ in a couple of years? And by default, in the Unions?

[Brain Fury]

you didn't say BUT in any of your posts , I know that but you come across as the sort of person that we have all met and by way of an example " I am not a Capitalist BUT just as long as the working class know their place...... " get my drift ? no , ok I will move on from that . the rest of your post proves to me , we are from the other sides of the fence , we will never agree ....

I think you'd be surprised what side of the fence I am from and where my political and social allegiances lie but we live in a capitalist society and I don't expect that to change any time soon and certainly not as a result of a strike by posties. There is no point continually trotting (no pun intended) out the same old rhetoric about fighting capitalism when there is absolutely zero prospect of it changing. The strike should be purely about getting the best deal within a pragmatic and realistic view of what can be achieved.

[UnhappyGremlin]

you didn't say BUT in any of your posts , I know that but you come across as the sort of person that we have all met and by way of an example " I am not a Capitalist BUT just as long as the working class know their place...... " get my drift ? no , ok I will move on from that . the rest of your post proves to me , we are from the other sides of the fence , we will never agree ....

I think you'd be surprised what side of the fence I am from and where my political and social allegiances lie but we live in a capitalist society and I don't expect that to change any time soon and certainly not as a result of a strike by posties. There is no point continually trotting (no pun intended) out the same old rhetoric about fighting capitalism when there is absolutely zero prospect of it changing. The strike should be purely about getting the best deal within a pragmatic and realistic view of what can be achieved.

But that applies to both sides.
And, in fairness, both sides do have a history of being unrealistic in their aims.
In my early years at RM, (and it's only my opinion) I believed that the union was the one wanting far too much. But then, it was very strong, and knew it had the teeth to achieve.
Now, the company has excessive aims in it's scope, and as the union is weaker, it is hoping it can get them.
RM wants to cut hard, fast and deep, and can't in all seriousness expect the union and the workforce to just stand by and accept it.

We know the business is changing, and mail is down.
But then, so are staffing levels. Well over a quarter of the workforce has gone in the last decade, which is by far RM's biggest cost.
So the drop in mail is, in effect, negated.
Especially taking into account that they are expanding a more work intensive side of the business (parcels).

They always start at polar opposites, and they have always seemed to have begun further apart with each new round of negotiation.
But each side knows that there are certain things/points that will be virtually impossible to achieve.
Such as a 10 year agreement (which I don't believe could ever be enforced anyway), and a no strike clause. No chance.
Realism and pragmatism applies to both sides.

[borders]

you didn't say BUT in any of your posts , I know that but you come across as the sort of person that we have all met and by way of an example " I am not a Capitalist BUT just as long as the working class know their place...... " get my drift ? no , ok I will move on from that . the rest of your post proves to me , we are from the other sides of the fence , we will never agree ....

I think you'd be surprised what side of the fence I am from and where my political and social allegiances lie but we live in a capitalist society and I don't expect that to change any time soon and certainly not as a result of a strike by posties. There is no point continually trotting (no pun intended) out the same old rhetoric about fighting capitalism when there is absolutely zero prospect of it changing. The strike should be purely about getting the best deal within a pragmatic and realistic view of what can be achieved.

come on then , enlighten us

[Brain Fury]

you didn't say BUT in any of your posts , I know that but you come across as the sort of person that we have all met and by way of an example " I am not a Capitalist BUT just as long as the working class know their place...... " get my drift ? no , ok I will move on from that . the rest of your post proves to me , we are from the other sides of the fence , we will never agree ....

I think you'd be surprised what side of the fence I am from and where my political and social allegiances lie but we live in a capitalist society and I don't expect that to change any time soon and certainly not as a result of a strike by posties. There is no point continually trotting (no pun intended) out the same old rhetoric about fighting capitalism when there is absolutely zero prospect of it changing. The strike should be purely about getting the best deal within a pragmatic and realistic view of what can be achieved.

come on then , enlighten us

OK - you need to learn not to jump to conclusions about people you don't know - are you enlightened?

[borders]

I am still in the dark !!!!

[Brain Fury]

I am still in the dark !!!!

And you always will be.