Don`t fall for it CWU !!

[Puppetmaster]

Talking is good as long as it is meaningfull,having read the leaked RM report last week, and RM are taking on 30,000 strike breakers,if we fail to secure a good deal now we mail as well go on the dole now because thats where we are heading coming Jan unless we get a good deal,RM only wants to string the talks out as stated previously and come Jan,Talks stop and excuitive action hits !

[NoSurrenderX]

Peter Mandleson seems to think London are the main problem.....if London postal worker`s are not doing as agreed in the 2007 national agreement then that’s a disgrace. If they are refusing to work the hours in a day that they are paid then sack them. If there is work to be done and there is time WITHIN delivery spans or indoor work before delivery WITHIN time then it gets done. Simple as. If they refuse get them charged with wilful delay of mail. The days of being paid 8 hours a day and only working 6 are long gone and so they should be. Weak management are to blame here....more to follow on that subject.

The vast majority of the rest of us who HAVE reached and implemented the 2007 agreement are angry about the bullying tactics used to try and make us work MORE than our 6/8 hours a day and all the nonsense about being taken off pay if you cut off at your FINISHING time. Or can’t do the 30 mins flexibility due to dependant’s issues. Or when we do agree to work overtime we don’t get paid it. Also later and later start times, closure of post offices, constant absorption cuts, unable to book a day’s leave when required without months and months notice. in the summer it really is impossible to get an extra day off out with your holiday block. in fact at any time of year getting. Being spoken to like your something thats been stepped in,First line fix never spent on improving the office. Stage warnings given out regardless of reason of absence etc etc etc No one said it would be easy but it really doesn’t need to be this hard.

Royal Mail Managers generally do not have a clue how to manage people. In the main they were postmen/women who made the step up with no qualifications. Useless postal workers make pretty useless managers, I’m sure you can all think of a number of examples. If you treat people with dignity and respect you get so much more out of them. The problems are units are trying to be shoe horned into crazy budgets and senior manager’s bully the DOMs to hit these targets who in turn bully the staff. The stupid bonuses paid out to the senior managers for hitting targets is in my opinion the crux of the problems we face today. Take the west coast of Scotland as an example....where 40 odd managers have been suspended for falsifying quality figures so they got their big bonuses and were found out.

The Hooper report was right in saying the current management team cannot move our business forward. We should be wiping the floor with TNT, DHL, UPS, UK MAIL etc etc. We should have business coming out of our ears. We need the handcuffs taken off so we can compete fairly. that’s the main downfall with Royal Mail. A weak greedy management who don’t know the job they are paid allot of money to do. As a unit union rep. I am on a daily basis chasing managers to do simple things like ensure health and safety rules are followed and enforced, or reminding them of national agreements or conduct code issues...they just don’t know. it’s so frustrating.

We do need to make a stand, we need to show our frustration but let’s be the bigger people. Call the strikes off this week. show everyone we are an honest hardworking workforce who want to embrace proper well thought out change and give our customers a fantastic service. Allow time to sort out all the issues I mentioned and more properly via a 3rd party, a week perhaps. The ballot will still be valid. After that and if there is still no resolution then lets hit them with everything we have.

[outandabout]

Peter Mandleson seems to think London are the main problem.....if London postal worker`s are not doing as agreed in the 2007 national agreement then that’s a disgrace. If they are refusing to work the hours in a day that they are paid then sack them. If there is work to be done and there is time WITHIN delivery spans or indoor work before delivery WITHIN time then it gets done. Simple as. If they refuse get them charged with wilful delay of mail. The days of being paid 8 hours a day and only working 6 are long gone and so they should be. Weak management are to blame here....more to follow on that subject.

The vast majority of the rest of us who HAVE reached and implemented the 2007 agreement are angry about the bullying tactics used to try and make us work MORE than our 6/8 hours a day and all the nonsense about being taken off pay if you cut off at your FINISHING time. Or can’t do the 30 mins flexibility due to dependant’s issues. Or when we do agree to work overtime we don’t get paid it. Also later and later start times, closure of post offices, constant absorption cuts, unable to book a day’s leave when required without months and months notice. in the summer it really is impossible to get an extra day off out with your holiday block. in fact at any time of year getting. Spoekn to like your something thats been stepped in,First line fix never spent on improving the office. Stage warning given out regardless of reason of absence etc etc etc No one said it would be easy but it really doesn’t need to be this hard.


Great post.
Royal Mail Managers generally do not have a clue how to manage people. In the main they were postmen/women who made the step up with no qualifications. Useless postal workers make pretty useless managers, I’m sure you can all think of a number of examples. If you treat people with dignity and respect you get so much more out of them. The problems are units are trying to be shoe horned into crazy budgets and senior manager’s bully the DOMs to hit these targets who in turn bully the staff. The stupid bonuses paid out to the senior managers for hitting targets is in my opinion the crux of the problems we face today. Take the west coast of Scotland as an example....where 40 odd managers have been suspended for falsifying quality figures so they got their big bonuses and were found out.

The Hooper report was right in saying the current management team cannot move our business forward. We should be wiping the floor with TNT, DHL, UPS, UK MAIL etc etc. We should have business coming out of our ears. We need the handcuffs taken off so we can compete fairly. that’s the main downfall with Royal Mail. A weak greedy management who don’t know the job they are paid allot of money to do. As a rep. I am on a daily basis chasing managers to do simple things like ensure health and safety rules are followed and enforced, or reminding them of national agreements or conduct code issues...they just don’t know. it’s so frustrating.

We do need to make a stand, we need to show our frustration but let’s be the bigger people. Call the strikes off this week. show everyone we are an honest hardworking workforce who want to embrace proper well thought out change and give our customers a fantastic service. Allow time to sort out all the issues I mentioned and more properly via a 3rd party, a week perhaps. The ballot will still be valid. After that and if there is still no resolution then lets hit them with everything we have.

Great post! As I posted on another thread, Im completely against the bullying of workers by management. Details of those practices need to be got out there, indivvidual stories of individual posties, and how they have been treated.

Im sure management will never comment on individual cases, so it would be a great way for the union workers to get sympathetic publicity.

I think if you guys are going to get anywhere, it has to be by selling this fight as being against preventing misery of individual hardworking postmen by protecting them from institutionalised bullying and mistreatment, and not by fatcat union bosses of a powerful union holding the country's christmas post to ransom.

Maybe an advert on TV, or on youtube, a line up of postmen each telling their story, 15-30 seconds each, or maybe a series, a new postie telling his story each day on you tube, dripping away into the media.

I am sure the public will support genuinely unfair practices being forced upon postmen and women.

[opgpat]

Provided the union accepts modernisation it should be able to protect working conditions for its members.

How does accepting 60,000 job cuts over 5 years sound? That's what the union agreed to and that is what's happened since 2004. How about agreeing to the introduction of new sequencing machines. Yes the union have agreed to that. The union are progressive and want more efficient working. They also want a fair workload as we keep teling them that we are treated like donkeys which we are. I mean, we are not donkeys.

[flaminmoses]

so how is any dispute ended.... by negotiation. Isnt that what Billy has been calling for, for acas to get involved. would be a good thing if they were.

I see your quite new on here ....it would be a good idear for you to scan some of the threads for the facts...and educate yourself.

I have been reading the threads. How is it wrong to negotiate? Surely thats the objective of the strike? If it can achieve its aims without disruption to workers pay packets, career prospects, and without losing the royal mail a lot of business and so losing jobs, isnt everyone a winner?

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... hp?id=1759" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Outandabout , pls read the leaked document above and let us know your thoughts.
I assure you.... it is genuine.

Cant expect the company not to do anything in its power to continue to service its customer base.

I would have thought that they have run any actions through government, and seen whether or not they approve, from what has been said.

If youre going to have a fair and reasonable negotiation, it doesnt do for either side to have too much power.

The union workers are going to be free to dispute, and the Royal Mail, it seems obvious, will be given enough latitude by government to ensure that the dispute cannot overly disrupt the service.

Thats seems like a good thing to me. The less disruption to the service, the less the public will be alienated, and the more sympathy the postal workers are likely to get as they begin to suffer in their pay packets.

If the postal workers want the public on their side, they are better off looking like they are going to be martyred striking against abusive practices, they will get the sympathy you feel they deserve.

I think its vital that the union looks forward facing, and not just determined to save jobs in the face of modernisation. Every sector faces rationalisation. I do think there will be a lot of sympathy for stamping out unfair practices which many on these forums seem to be aggrieved about. Provided the union accepts modernisation it should be able to protect working conditions for its members.

but all of this is no excuse tot he bullying and harrasment and blantant employment law breaking that we have endured over the last few months.
im afraid its strike while they negotiate.

royal mail have played dirty now we will keep them where we can see them.

NO TRUST

[Godric]

Cant expect the company not to do anything in its power to continue to service its customer base.

I would have thought that they have run any actions through government, and seen whether or not they approve, from what has been said.

If youre going to have a fair and reasonable negotiation, it doesnt do for either side to have too much power.

The union workers are going to be free to dispute, and the Royal Mail, it seems obvious, will be given enough latitude by government to ensure that the dispute cannot overly disrupt the service.

Thats seems like a good thing to me. The less disruption to the service, the less the public will be alienated, and the more sympathy the postal workers are likely to get as they begin to suffer in their pay packets.

If the postal workers want the public on their side, they are better off looking like they are going to be martyred striking against abusive practices, they will get the sympathy you feel they deserve.

I think its vital that the union looks forward facing, and not just determined to save jobs in the face of modernisation. Every sector faces rationalisation. I do think there will be a lot of sympathy for stamping out unfair practices which many on these forums seem to be aggrieved about. Provided the union accepts modernisation it should be able to protect working conditions for its members.

Another screw! Blody hell. They're all the same.

this board is becoming infested with them, and their lickspittle buddies from the gutter press

Thats exactly what I thought about outandabout either Managment/Press he must of reported me as i posted this about him earlier and it was removed

anyhoo Billy Hayes should announce strike dates for next week to put the wind up them say 4 days of rolling strikes one day mail centre & distribution and the next day deliveries offices then the following day mail centres and distribution again followed by deliveries on the 4th day now that would set the cats amongst the pidgeons and give them something to think about

[norbert]

so how is any dispute ended.... by negotiation. Isnt that what Billy has been calling for, for acas to get involved. would be a good thing if they were.

I see your quite new on here ....it would be a good idear for you to scan some of the threads for the facts...and educate yourself.

I have been reading the threads. How is it wrong to negotiate? Surely thats the objective of the strike? If it can achieve its aims without disruption to workers pay packets, career prospects, and without losing the royal mail a lot of business and so losing jobs, isnt everyone a winner?

it boils down to trust Out and about and few trust RM and certainly not their ex Plasterboard Manager - the devil is in the detail yet again , RM have to appear " conciliatory " after the leaked Year 8 looking Powerpoint document which was all about steamrollering everybody for privatization and lining their bulging pockets ( the bit "conveniently" missed out ) - in it , it said " only go to ACAS if there's political pressure .

The Plasterboard Manager is only interested in advice from ACAS on certain issues - it's all too disingenuous , he's already said there's no more executive action but he and his henchmen have already wreaked enough damage in soft touch offices .

All these Directors are though are Mandy's hired hands or attack dogs - The Union stopped a previous sale due to a back bench rebellion by Labour MP's , any parcel companies that were remotely interested were scared off by the CWU , so the Old Queen of Darkness is looking for revenge & wants the union broken , a sad , bitter and twisted , vindictive middle aged man :mfo

RM would be a 1000 times worse without the CWU , you usually get the worst of the public sector with it's pettiness , mean mindedness and instuitionalized spite and the worst excesses of the cut throat and sometimes renegade private sector - handled very , very badly of course as RM is neither one thing or the other .

With RM everything is complicated , often needlessly so and a ridiculous amount of politics - you'll get that though - 1 manager to 4 staff ? - chiefs and indians

[outandabout]

Thats exactly what I thought about outandabout either Managment/Press he must of reported me as i posted this about him earlier and it was removed

I havent reported anyone.

I have reminded people about the rules on not being abusive to people who dont share your opinion when I had an inappropriate comment directed towards me.

Maybe an admin saw your inappropriate post and removed it.

I am neither management nor press.

I remind you of the rules!

"Just because someone has a different viewpoint or political position to you, it does not mean that they are a 'Manager' or a 'Union fanatic', any posts making such assumptions or generalisations will be pulled or amended and the poster warned."

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Thats exactly what I thought about outandabout either Managment/Press he must of reported me as i posted this about him earlier and it was removed

You'll get used to that mate! Don't take it personally though!

[jaja]

Thats exactly what I thought about outandabout either Managment/Press he must of reported me as i posted this about him earlier and it was removed

I havent reported anyone.

I have reminded people about the rules on not being abusive to people who dont share your opinion when I had an inappropriate comment directed towards me.

Maybe an admin saw your inappropriate post and removed it.

I am neither management nor press.

I remind you of the rules!

"Just because someone has a different viewpoint or political position to you, it does not mean that they are a 'Manager' or a 'Union fanatic', any posts making such assumptions or generalisations will be pulled or amended and the poster warned."

I said Nothing inappropriate about you just agreed with the coments below!!!

Cant expect the company not to do anything in its power to continue to service its customer base.

I would have thought that they have run any actions through government, and seen whether or not they approve, from what has been said.

If youre going to have a fair and reasonable negotiation, it doesnt do for either side to have too much power.

The union workers are going to be free to dispute, and the Royal Mail, it seems obvious, will be given enough latitude by government to ensure that the dispute cannot overly disrupt the service.

Thats seems like a good thing to me. The less disruption to the service, the less the public will be alienated, and the more sympathy the postal workers are likely to get as they begin to suffer in their pay packets.

If the postal workers want the public on their side, they are better off looking like they are going to be martyred striking against abusive practices, they will get the sympathy you feel they deserve.

I think its vital that the union looks forward facing, and not just determined to save jobs in the face of modernisation. Every sector faces rationalisation. I do think there will be a lot of sympathy for stamping out unfair practices which many on these forums seem to be aggrieved about. Provided the union accepts modernisation it should be able to protect working conditions for its members.

Another screw! Blody hell. They're all the same.

this board is becoming infested with them, and their lickspittle buddies from the gutter press

Thats exactly what I thought about outandabout either Managment/Press he must of reported me as i posted this about him earlier and it was removed

anyhoo Billy Hayes should announce strike dates for next week to put the wind up them say 4 days of rolling strikes one day mail centre & distribution and the next day deliveries offices then the following day mail centres and distribution again followed by deliveries on the 4th day now that would set the cats amongst the pidgeons and give them something to think about

[jaja]

Thats exactly what I thought about outandabout either Managment/Press he must of reported me as i posted this about him earlier and it was removed

You'll get used to that mate! Don't take it personally though!

Cheers mate....trouble is on here you never know who's

[axeman]

another what?

I'm hoping the postal workers get some sympathy, and the public get to hear about some of these abusive practices that prople on here say are inflicted upon workers. Surely that is a good thing?

clearly out of your depth bo** negation is welcome defeat is not. To cower to the obsesive demands of crazier ,etc.... is the folly of fools .
the need to hit them hard has never been so welcome so lets get it on.... and indeed grab the momentum by the throat and give them whatfor.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I removed them and will continue to do so

Just because someone has a different viewpoint or political position to you, it does not mean that they are a 'Manager' or a 'Union fanatic', any posts making such assumptions or generalisations will be pulled or amended and the poster warned. This also applies to posts that are not aimed at individuals but at groups.

I was going to amend the posts above but I am far to busy moderating today than ever before and people ignoring the rules aint helping.

No more must be a manger - bunch of Union fanatics type posts please it helpd no one and does not progress the debate 1 iota.

[jaja]

I removed them and will continue to do so

Just because someone has a different viewpoint or political position to you, it does not mean that they are a 'Manager' or a 'Union fanatic', any posts making such assumptions or generalisations will be pulled or amended and the poster warned. This also applies to posts that are not aimed at individuals but at groups.

I was going to amend the posts above but I am far to busy moderating today than ever before and people ignoring the rules aint helping.

No more must be a manger - bunch of Union fanatics type posts please it helpd no one and does not progress the debate 1 iota.

TBT message recieved and understood .......No more must be a manger will not be used again

[dvbuk55]

so how is any dispute ended.... by negotiation. Isnt that what Billy has been calling for, for acas to get involved. would be a good thing if they were.

I see your quite new on here ....it would be a good idear for you to scan some of the threads for the facts...and educate yourself.

I have been reading the threads. How is it wrong to negotiate? Surely thats the objective of the strike? If it can achieve its aims without disruption to workers pay packets, career prospects, and without losing the royal mail a lot of business and so losing jobs, isnt everyone a winner?

Career prospects? Get real! People can't even get a full time contract let alone a career prospect. Are you a little bit worried that you are going to have to work much harder come Thursday or Friday - you are going to blink first - especially with the "30,000 vetted recruits" - you'll spend more time on the phone than on your backside.