Postman savaged by dogs

[overworked]

To update everyone, I am Keith's CWU rep at Cambridge DO. He had a five hour operation on Monday afternoon and was due to have more surgery this afternoon (Tuesday). Our DOM visited him in hospital on Tuesday morning and my intention was to go in the afternoon but that is when he was having his second operation. I will now be visiting him tomorrow. Our Area Safety Rep is carrying our a full investigation of this attack. The police are also investigating what happened and I hope that the owners of the dogs are prosecuted. This is the second serious dog attack we have had in Cambridge this year. I will update again tomorrow.

[NWpostie]

Just watched the BBC link with video, I am actually fuming that there is a Postman still delivering to the House, Delivery should be suspended permanently !!!!! make this house a No Delivery zone, The gates are quite high and substantial, it must have been opened and considering the location of the Post box, I would say it is negligent and in apublic place, that gates must have been opened.

I remember one time when I have a nasty dog behind one letter box and a weak door, I didn't want to deliver there anymore and the manager was reluctant to suspend delivery, looking back I should have been a bit more forceful about it, I wonder if this Postman was forced to do this Delivery knowing the Dangers and was not informed of this ?

[Spedley]

From the BBC video, it looks like a rather large and expensive house. The impression I got was that they were guard dogs that had escaped and as such is hardly suprising that they attacked - that is what they are for.

It seems clear from that the fault is that of the ownsers for not securing the premisies and not the dogs which were doing 'as instructed'. I think there will be a prosecution in this case unless there is something we are missing (i.e. postman tried to enter the premisises after walking past a do not enter sign) because it should not have happened.

[brothermagrew]

To update everyone, I am Keith's CWU rep at Cambridge DO. He had a five hour operation on Monday afternoon and was due to have more surgery this afternoon (Tuesday). Our DOM visited him in hospital on Tuesday morning and my intention was to go in the afternoon but that is when he was having his second operation. I will now be visiting him tomorrow. Our Area Safety Rep is carrying our a full investigation of this attack. The police are also investigating what happened and I hope that the owners of the dogs are prosecuted. This is the second serious dog attack we have had in Cambridge this year. I will update again tomorrow.

Obliged when visiting Keith tomorrow, that you will convey our best wishes from his CWU colleagues in Jockland. Can you confirm on whether the attack took place on private or public land? And thank you at least for the promise of an update.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

To update everyone, I am Keith's CWU rep at Cambridge DO. He had a five hour operation on Monday afternoon and was due to have more surgery this afternoon (Tuesday). Our DOM visited him in hospital on Tuesday morning and my intention was to go in the afternoon but that is when he was having his second operation. I will now be visiting him tomorrow. Our Area Safety Rep is carrying our a full investigation of this attack. The police are also investigating what happened and I hope that the owners of the dogs are prosecuted. This is the second serious dog attack we have had in Cambridge this year. I will update again tomorrow.

Obliged when visiting Keith tomorrow, that you will convey our best wishes from his CWU colleagues in Jockland. Can you confirm on whether the attack took place on private or public land? And thank you at least for the promise of an update.

I would like to repeat what Brothermagrew says and add that all on RMC wish our colleague a speedy recovery and could you pass on to him and his family our best wishes. This is also from all Posties in Yorkshire.

[NWpostie]

seen in an another thread that the Dogs have history of attacks and agressivness, if proven I hope the Postman will be able to make substantial damages claims that would involve him taking the house off the owner if he cannot pay the costs also the owner spending some time in Prison.

It beggers belief that people would own such Dogs, I have heard of too many cases of children being killed by "Family" pet Dogs, people in the street being attacked, I got bitten twice in service, what annoys me most the owners don't ever apologise at all, next time I will kill the Dog one way or another poisoned meat, stick with a nail through it and shove it down their throats then twist it all the way round and fcuk the Dog's throat up etc

Hope the Postman makes a good recovery though I would imagine he will have PTSD over this.

[k979aaa]

If this happened to a policeman all the press and politicians of this country would be up in arms about the state of our lawless society and calls for greater protection for the police!. It is time we all demanded the right to be armed for ourself defence if it had not been for the builder he would be DEAD now we can all pussy foot around the idea but pepper spray at least would have given him the time to escape it is obscene that royalmail send out it's staff without basic protection and the law of the land allows this postman to nearly be killed just doing his job!.

[k979aaa]

If this happened to a policeman all the press and politicians of this country would be up in arms about the state of our lawless society and calls for greater protection for the police!. It is time we all demanded the right to be armed for ourself defence if it had not been for the builder he would be DEAD now we can all pussy foot around the idea but pepper spray at least would have given him the time to escape it is obscene that royalmail send out it's staff without basic protection and the law of the land allows this postman to nearly be killed just doing his job!.

As much as RM enjoy shafting us I really can't see how this is remotely their fault. Is pepper spray not illegal in this country?

royalmail should supply it's staff with can's of repellent for dog's if the law does not allow this the law is an ass!. knifes are legal to be carried with good reason!. Good reason would have prevented this with the postman having the means of self defence against a vicious dog!. If pepper spray is illegal and i believe it is how come it is safe for the police to use on humans when we only will and should use it on dog's that display the same aggression towards us!.

[stokes11eg]

If this happened to a policeman all the press and politicians of this country would be up in arms about the state of our lawless society and calls for greater protection for the police!. It is time we all demanded the right to be armed for ourself defence if it had not been for the builder he would be DEAD now we can all pussy foot around the idea but pepper spray at least would have given him the time to escape it is obscene that royalmail send out it's staff without basic protection and the law of the land allows this postman to nearly be killed just doing his job!.

As much as RM enjoy shafting us I really can't see how this is remotely their fault. Is pepper spray not illegal in this country?

royalmail should supply it's staff with can's of repellent for dog's if the law does not allow this the law is an ass!. knifes are legal to be carried with good reason!. Good reason would have prevented this with the postman having the means of self defence against a vicious dog!. If pepper spray is illegal and i believe it is how come it is safe for the police to use on humans when we only will and should use it on dog's that display the same aggression towards us!.

Our office has been giving out a spray for some time now. I have tried it on myself, and although not pleasant, it
is not too harmful---it does work in fending off dogs, I find if you spray it a few feet from the dog. it does work,
sometimes you have to spray a couple of times. it is made from natural ingredients, so has no long term effect.

[NWpostie]

I would prefer a can of CS gas, I would rather be tried for offensive weapons than have my arm half hanging off.

It beggers belief that people would own such dogs.

[brothermagrew]

I would prefer a can of CS gas, I would rather be tried for offensive weapons than have my arm half hanging off.

It beggers belief that people would own such dogs.

Agreed mate and their bite force has to be seen to be believed!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/531069/bi ... _shepherd/

[k979aaa]

I would prefer a can of CS gas, I would rather be tried for offensive weapons than have my arm half hanging off.

It beggers belief that people would own such dogs.

Agreed mate and their bite force has to be seen to be believed!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/531069/bi ... _shepherd/

I know i was bitten by a german shep i was like a rag doll in it jaw's so just imagine how one of those would do unto you or colleagues or son or daughter!. No one is allowed hand guns in this land so why should dangerous dog's be any different!.

[brothermagrew]

If this happened to a policeman all the press and politicians of this country would be up in arms about the state of our lawless society and calls for greater protection for the police!. It is time we all demanded the right to be armed for ourself defence if it had not been for the builder he would be DEAD now we can all pussy foot around the idea but pepper spray at least would have given him the time to escape it is obscene that royalmail send out it's staff without basic protection and the law of the land allows this postman to nearly be killed just doing his job!.

As much as RM enjoy shafting us I really can't see how this is remotely their fault. Is pepper spray not illegal in this country?

royalmail should supply it's staff with can's of repellent for dog's if the law does not allow this the law is an ass!. knifes are legal to be carried with good reason!. Good reason would have prevented this with the postman having the means of self defence against a vicious dog!. If pepper spray is illegal and i believe it is how come it is safe for the police to use on humans when we only will and should use it on dog's that display the same aggression towards us!.

Should make it clear that the police do not use pepper spray on humans they use what is termed as CS Incapacitant Spray and only then when each individual officer is trained and certified in the use of CS Incapacitant Spray are they authorised to carry it and ultimately when need be use it.

The CS incapacitant spray may be used as a response option in circumstances where an officer perceives there is a significant threat of harm or violence and the use of the spray is proportional to that threat.

Its use may be appropriate when lower levels of force have been ineffective, or if the officer considers lower levels of force would be inadequate.

The use of an aerosol incapacitant spray may be appropriate against:
• Those offering a level of violence which cannot be appropriately dealt with by lower levels of force.
• Violent offenders, other than those armed with firearms or similar remote injury weapons, where failure to induce ‘immediate’ incapacitation would increase the risks to all present.

Information about CS
CS is a white crystalline solid. Its chemical name is 2-chlorobencylidene malononitrile but it is commonly called CS from the initials of Corson and Stoughton who were the first people to synthesize it in 1928.
CS itself is not flammable but some of the solvents which are used in CS aerosols are flammable. CS aerosols should not be used where there are naked flames.
CS sprays should generally be used at distances of between 1 and 4.5 metres (3-15ft) from the suspect. At distances closer than 1 metre (3ft) there is a possibility that the stream of CS solution could exert sufficient ‘hydraulic pressure’ to damage the eye. At distances greater than 3.5 metres (10ft) accuracy is lost and the spray is less effective, particularly in windy conditions.

CS sprays do not affect animals in the same way as people. It is ineffective on dogs.

Delivery System
The irritant is dispersed from a hand-held aerosol canister in a liquid stream which contains a 5% solution of CS in the solvent Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIBK). The propellant is nitrogen.
The delivery system is based on the design of the canister and degree of pressure. These will affect the amount of agent discharged and the range and degree of coverage.

Incapacitant sprays are generally dispersed by:
• A streamer spray, which is a narrow type of spray similar to a water pistol.
• A cone spray, which is designed to engulf the subject’s face, affecting the eyes, nose, lips, mouth and respiratory system.
• Burst foggers, which are designed to deliver a large quantity of agent under high pressure.
The streamer has been selected at the present time for use by officers because:
• It can be directed accurately
• It has a longer range
• There is a less risk of cross contamination

The spray is dispensed from a hand-held aerosol canister in a liquid stream, which has a maximum effective range of 4.5 metres (15ft). This stream can be directed very accurately.

These devices should not be used at less than one metre (3ft) unless there is a likelihood of serious injury. (This is because eye damage may occur if the spray is used at close range.)

Where possible, officers should attempt to spray downwind (i.e. with the wind). Spraying upwind (i.e. against the wind) may cause a blow-back which could affect officers or members of the public (cross contamination). It is advisable to shake the dispenser at the commencement of tour of duty and if possible prior to each use. Officers should note that if they use the spray operationally they are likely to detect a strong smell similar to paint thinners. This is the solvent MIBK dispersing into the atmosphere.

The spray should be aimed directly at the subject’s face.

In Still Air
Officers should use two half-second bursts, with the recommended spraying distance being 1 to 4.5 metres (3–15ft). They should repeat this technique if the first application is unsuccessful. If the desired effect is not then achieved, officers should consider other use of force options.

In Moving Air
A one-second burst may be necessary. When facing more than one aggressor, officers should spray from side to side with a continuous burst.
NB The spray is primarily intended for use against one individual and the canister is designed to deliver six seconds worth of spray, e.g. 6 x 1 second bursts.

Once the officer has sprayed a subject they should move (preferably sideways). Following a short pause (5–10 seconds) they should then move to establish control.

Possible Failure of CS Incapacitant
The use of an incapacitant spray should not be viewed as a panacea and will not work in all cases.
Studies from other countries show that incapacitant sprays do not always produce the desired effects.
Failures have been noted on three categories of subject:
• People with serious mental health disabilities
• People under the influence of drink or drugs
• People with a positive mental mind set/goal.

Officers must not rely on incapacitant sprays to the exclusion of other control tactics. There is evidence that some subjects become more aggressive following the use of an incapacitant spray.

Under such circumstances officers may need to use defensive tactics, with or without batons, to establish control and handcuff the subject.

Physiological Effect
A burst of incapacitant into the face will affect the eyes, the respiratory system and the skin. The effect may be instantaneous or delayed, or there may be no effect at all.

Eyes
A spray into the face will cause dilation of the capillaries and instant closing of the eyes. Effect can range from severe twitching or spasmodic contraction of the eyelids to involuntary closing of the eyes. People with glasses or contact lenses will be equally affected. Following exposure, contact lenses should be removed by the subject or a doctor for faster recovery. On no account should contact lenses be removed by a police officer.

Respiratory System
If the spray is inhaled it produces either respiratory inflammation or irritation which, in turn, produces uncontrollable coughing and shortness of breath. The inflammation of mucous membranes makes breathing through the nose difficult. Prior to aggressive behaviour a subject’s breathing becomes more rapid and deeper than usual which increases the effects of the spray.

Skin
The spray causes severe discomfort or irritation to the face and the membranes inside the nose. Depending on the individual’s complexion, skin colour may range from slight discolouration to a bright red. The solvent in the spray, if used at close range, may cause blistering of the skin. This again varies on the individual’s skin type.

Other Common Reactions
The following other common reactions may also occur:
• Moving hands to face – dropping any items held
• Legs become weak – may drop to knees
• Upper torso bends forward
• Impaired hearing – may not hear officer
• Muscles tense – may not respond immediately to commands.

Immunity
It is extremely unlikely that anyone can build an immunity to CS type incapacitant sprays with repeated exposure, but a subject may become less sensitive to CS, depending on the factors outlined previously under the heading Possible Failure of CS Incapacitants.

After Effects
There is no evidence of lasting side effects or after effects.

Aftercare
Once an officer has established control by using the incapacitant spray and the person they used it on is correctly restrained, they should follow these procedures:
• Give reassurance that the effect of the spray is temporary.
• Instruct the person to breath normally. This will aid recovery and prevent hyperventilation.
• Remove the person sprayed to an uncontaminated area where they can be exposed to cool, fresh air. This will permit the particles to be blown off the body.

Exposure to cool, fresh air will normally result in recovery from significant symptoms within 15 minutes.
• Advise the person not to rub their eyes or face as this will worsen their condition.
• Discourage the person from applying water to the eyes. It may provide some relief but may worsen the long-term recovery.

If reactions persist beyond 15 minutes the use of copious amounts of cool tap water may be used to flush remaining CS from the face. Irrigation of the eyes should only be undertaken by a police surgeon or other specified trained medical personnel. Attempting to irrigate the eyes at an earlier stage when they are being forced closed by the effect of the spray would be futile. Under no circumstances should warm water be used. The use of so-called CS ‘antidote’ or ‘neutralising’ agents has been examined and is not recommended. In some cases the use of these can prove harmful.

If any adverse reactions are observed, immediate medical assistance should be obtained. It is essential that the subject’s breathing is monitored. If the subject is having difficulty resuming normal breathing the provision of medical assistance must be given precedence over conveying the subject to a police station. In such cases the subject must be taken directly to hospital.

Ensure that restraint methods used and the position the person is placed in does not adversely affect breathing. Prisoners must not be left or transported in a prone (face down) position. The subject should be carefully monitored from the time of arrest, during transportation and whilst in custody until the effect of the incapacitant has worn off. This is especially important in monitoring the recovery of subjects who are obese or are known to be under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. It is also important to pay particular attention to persons on whom the spray appears to be ineffective and those exhibiting bizarre/violent behaviour or experiencing breathing difficulties.

CS incapacitant spray is classed as a prohibited firearm under Section 5(1)(b) of the Firearms Act, 1968, as such any discharge, loss or abuse of a spray will be scrutinised very carefully. As CS spray is classified as a prohibited firearm, under no circumstances will officers possess CS whilst off duty. Canisters must be returned to an approved cabinet prior to any officer terminating duty.

Speaking from experience this stuff works

[k979aaa]

Which is why i said pepper spray as dog's have a sence of smell a thousand time's of the average human!.The active ingredient in pepper spray is Capsicum it does not work on bird's (the winged and feathered one's) it only require's the law to be changed and the formulation to be diluted as too make it safer for use for self-defence from animal attack!. I am only saying that these thing's should be looked at for the sake of Keith and other postie's up and down the land if it were not for the builder we would be looking at a fatality how many more be before we do see that eventuality!.

[NWpostie]

Make it legal for Posties to have a Pepper spray on duty