Seniority

[bullhead]

Judging by the forth coming re-pick of professional drivers duties in my office, it would seem that under MTSF somebody with an assigned allowance, with 13 years service, gets to pick a duty ahead of somebody with 30 years service (me) . . . Discuss

[fishtank]

Since assigned allowances are protected do you really think Royal Mail would agree to pay the same allowance twice?

[bullhead]

Since assigned allowances are protected do you really think Royal Mail would agree to pay the same allowance twice?

So seniority, which the CWU vowed to protect, is no more? Think I'll be saving myself £13.44 a month f**k 'em.

[fishtank]

MTSF2 which I think would be the agreement relating to your issue has been in place for around 15 years, seniority is very rarely absolute except in situations where jobs, contracts and allowances match. The union has many faults but assuming they could protect seniority no matter the circumstances is a bit naive. People are paid assigned allowances because they work those shifts, having a system that meant the majority of staff would end up getting night shift allowance no matter what shift they ended up on would never be accepted by the business.

[bullhead]

MTSF2 which I think would be the agreement relating to your issue has been in place for around 15 years, seniority is very rarely absolute except in situations where jobs, contracts and allowances match. The union has many faults but assuming they could protect seniority no matter the circumstances is a bit naive. People are paid assigned allowances because they work those shifts, having a system that meant the majority of staff would end up getting night shift allowance no matter what shift they ended up on would never be accepted by the business.

Though in agreeing MTSF2 they've shafted the seniority which they vowed to protect? Seniority in some parts of the business is sacrosanct . . . yet in other parts it's f**k you, your on your own

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Ah so the Union is okay when it works for you, but when it works for someone else (like protecting their earnings) its crap and I am leaving the Union.

The 2 are mutually self-exclusive you can't protect earnings, and have absolute seniority. There has to be a compromise, and this protects people's earnings, would you be happy if you got a pay cut because of seniority, really, would you.

[rubberbond]

You should try being in the position of a lot of us,not senior enough to sign for a job,therefore dumped on the reserve pile, with al, the s**t that comes with that particular role
. Duty you're on is rostered Saturday off, we'll change it to Tuesday,regardless of the fact you haven't had a Saturday in 18 months and so it goes on. If I were you I would be grateful for the life and privileges that your seniority affords you and think about others in less fortunate positions.
Seniority is a stinking pile of crap,but what the alternative is I don't know.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Try it, I am living it - I am in the lower 25% of seniority in my section, and lowest 10% in the office.

[redheadedwoman]

Ah so the Union is okay when it works for you, but when it works for someone else (like protecting their earnings) its crap and I am leaving the Union.

The 2 are mutually self-exclusive you can't protect earnings, and have absolute seniority. There has to be a compromise, and this protects people's earnings, would you be happy if you got a pay cut because of seniority, really, would you.

[Judgee]

You should try being in the position of a lot of us,not senior enough to sign for a job,therefore dumped on the reserve pile, with al, the s**t that comes with that particular role
. Duty you're on ,fostered Saturday off, we'll change it to Tuesday,regardless of the fact you haven't had a Saturday in 18 months and so it goes on. If I were you I would be grateful for the life and privileges that your seniority affords you and think about others in less fortunate positions.
Seniority is a stinking pile of crap,but what the alternative is I don't know.

I think you'll find senior workers know what it's like because we all had a turn at being a reserve and being crapped on. This may sound very strange but no one with seniority got it without being in your position and working through it (although I am sure many of us moaned like little bitches too at the time!)

[bullhead]

Ah so the Union is okay when it works for you, but when it works for someone else (like protecting their earnings) its crap and I am leaving the Union.

The 2 are mutually self-exclusive you can't protect earnings, and have absolute seniority. There has to be a compromise, and this protects people's earnings, would you be happy if you got a pay cut because of seniority, really, would you.

The union protect earnings, really? signed up to scrapping the Saturday premium, drivers allowance, reduction in OT over 10 hours ( no I'm not a docket baron) Hd payments, reduction in the Saturday overtime payment , they are just off the top of my head. And all the while the subs have gone up !! This Union looking after its members? Meh

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Ah so the Union is okay when it works for you, but when it works for someone else (like protecting their earnings) its crap and I am leaving the Union.

The 2 are mutually self-exclusive you can't protect earnings, and have absolute seniority. There has to be a compromise, and this protects people's earnings, would you be happy if you got a pay cut because of seniority, really, would you.

The union protect earnings, really? signed up to scrapping the Saturday premium, drivers allowance, reduction in OT over 10 hours ( no I'm not a docket baron) Hd payments, reduction in the Saturday overtime payment , they are just off the top of my head. And all the while the subs have gone up !! This Union looking after its members? Meh

Really are you being obtuse on purpose? I didn't say they protect earnings, I said when an agreement works for someone and protects their earnings.

Are you are saying that because of those allowances going, you are allowed to trump someone else using your seniority, even if they will lose they pay and allowances they are receiving.

If so you complain about the allowances you lost (and you are entitled to do so) but appear to think its okay for someone else to lose theirs just because you want that duty. That is close to being a double standard in my opinion.

[Duran]

Every royal mail emoloyee has had a turn being at the bottom of the pile. Ive suffered many a time not getting the shift or duties i wanted. I just accepted seniority. You get over 30 years service to find you cant sign for a duty, as a member with 3 years service . That receives £5 a week more allowance wants it. Union should never have agreed to this mtsf bullcrap.

[fishtank]

If the union hadn't negotiated MTSF2 what do you think would have happened?
Do you think someone who has done a night shift for 10 years should be bumped off and suddenly be £80 a week worse off because Bert with 6 months more seniority has decided he fancies a wee change of scenery?
Or do you think Royal Mail were ever going to pay both of them an extra £80 a week?

[Martin Walsh]

I wonder who negotiated the professional drives grade pay when you used to get an allowance ? It now stands at £491.86 nationally per week. Yes the CWU.

FIsh is correct that Royal Mail do not pay twice i.e. The person who signs for the duty the new shift allowance and the person who than gets knocked out. That was the price of pay protection. But hey your be better off not in a union as Royal Mail's decision to close the DB scheme and put everyone in the D.C. Scheme where there is shift allowances do not count torwarda pensions will mean that pay protection and the MTSF will potentially be defunked. That will make use all safer than !!!!!