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What type of IA is legal?

11 Jun 2007, 16:10

Anybody notice in their officea stupid RM memo saying that its illegal to take action other than a strike as the ballot paper said strike with no mention of any other action. RM are saying for the CWU to take any other type of action would require a further and separate ballot! That means if true that the reassurances from Dave Ward about consulting with branches about the best type of action to take is meaningless as we can only take strike action.

Something is not right here,surley the CWU would not have got the law on on IA wrong would they?

11 Jun 2007, 16:14

As far as i'm aware they're talkin bollox

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... php?t=1685

My office and others have been working this way for Months.

Re: What type of IA is legal?

11 Jun 2007, 17:08

Big Daz wrote:Anybody notice in their officea stupid RM memo saying that its illegal to take action other than a strike as the ballot paper said strike with no mention of any other action. RM are saying for the CWU to take any other type of action would require a further and separate ballot! That means if true that the reassurances from Dave Ward about consulting with branches about the best type of action to take is meaningless as we can only take strike action.

Something is not right here,surley the CWU would not have got the law on on IA wrong would they?


From what i can see, it is typical Royal Mail tactics to try and cause confusion and hope that staff will not take ne action at all. Or in other words " Divide and Conquer "

industrial action

11 Jun 2007, 18:56

hi i have worked to rule all my life,laurel and hardy are talking BOLLOCKS .do not touch any mail before 0500 take your time on prep,have 40 mins meal break,if you drive rm vans spend 15 mins checking it,if it has the slightest fault pmt it,if you have cycle dly do not use your car ,do not work excess time,do not work any overtime,any mail left after 12.30 should be brought back regards john

11 Jun 2007, 19:34

Don't let the Management use their bulling tactics on you mate.They try this on all industrial disputes they try to rule using fear tactics.

Just do your job has it should be done(In red above this page) they will try to bully you but you are within the law.

The CWU have an Excellent Legal & Medical Department any Industrial Action will be under their guidance of the current laws of this land :wave :wave :

11 Jun 2007, 19:43

Just got this from the DTI website
http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/employ ... 18476.html


Majority Support

Majority support must be obtained in response to the question (or questions) on the ballot paper which is appropriate to the type of industrial action concerned ie:

In the case of a strike, majority support must be obtained in response to a question on the voting paper which asks if members are prepared to take part in (or continue with) strike action;

In the case of action short of a strike, majority support must be obtained in response to a question on the voting paper which asks if members are prepared to take part in (or continue with) action short of a strike;

If the action consists or may consist of a strike and other industrial action, majority support must be obtained for each type of action in response to separate questions on the voting paper asking if members are prepared to take part in (or continue with) each type.

11 Jun 2007, 19:50

Again from the DTI website

http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/employ ... 17758.html


Timing of the ballot and related action

If the inducement of industrial action to which the ballot relates is to be protected by the law, some part of the action must be induced and start to take place within four weeks from the date of the ballot. This period may be extended to eight weeks if the union and employer agree (7). (To reduce the risk of misunderstanding, both parties may find it helpful for such agreements to be in writing.) If a ballot results in a "Yes" vote for both a strike and action short of a strike and action short of a strike is induced and starts to take place within the relevant period, the ballot would also continue to protect strike action subsequently, and vice versa.

A union cannot avoid liability merely by holding a properly conducted secret ballot after previously calling for industrial action without one.

Voting procedures

Voting must be by the marking of a voting paper.

The voting paper must:

- state the name of the independent scrutineer;
- clearly specify the address to which, and the date by which, it is to be returned;
- be marked with a number, which is one of a series of consecutive numbers used to give a different number to each voting paper.
- make clear whether voters are being asked if they are prepared to take part in industrial action which consists of a strike, or in industrial action short of a strike, which for this purpose includes overtime bans and call-out bans
Last edited by Big Daz on 11 Jun 2007, 19:56, edited 1 time in total.

11 Jun 2007, 19:54

It is looking like RM are right and action short of a strike would need another ballot as it wasnt on the ballot paper sent by the CWU!

So its strikes or nothing and hope talks can solve things!

Consult with branches mr ward over best type of industrial action to take is pointless the law has already decided!

11 Jun 2007, 19:56

it ia all a mute point, If rm say it is illegal to work to rule then don't, just work the hours you signed up to do and no more end of story, not working to rule ,just rms contract.

11 Jun 2007, 20:16

The point im making is we can not have a centrally co ordinated work to rule or overtime ban across every D.O by CWU HQ withoutanother ballot. Yes we can work our duty hours and cut off which we already do but for the CWU to call on all members to do this needs another ballot.

Therefore individual mbrs will have to take the decision themselves to work their hours and no more and refuse OT.

Dave ward/CWU have not been clear enough about IA, it was his assurance that "We will consult CWU members first on the most effective type of action" that many have interpeted as meaning work to rule and overtime bans would be a possibility if the CWU chose to do so. However as the DTI shows only strike action can be taken based on the wording of the ballot paper.

Why did DW not say we will consult on the most efective type of strike action?

Ive now got to explain to my mbrs in the morning its strikes or nothing without another ballot!

Be in no doubt RM will milk this for all its worth, the cwu have lost a propganda battle lets hope they dont lose the war!

11 Jun 2007, 20:19

Daz you aint got to say nothing to your guys tomm.
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... php?t=1685

I cant see what the problem is!

11 Jun 2007, 20:38

my understanding was about the consultation was all out ,one day ,half day etc and also how often and when
not work to rule and also if all talks fail then this consultation will take place
my opinion is if you want to work to rule do it now we dont need a ballot for that

11 Jun 2007, 20:49

I can see the problem. In my office a voluntary OT ban work to 318s (we dont actually have any, since 2004) would not be solid. I will be telling them that the CWU will not be calling on them to work to their 318 and not do overtime as they can not do that. Like i said its a voluntary decision for each and every individual to make. The only way around is for me to set a example and cut off and not work my day off or work my day off only for the hours of attendance for the duty im covering.

Why did the CWU not put action short of a strike on the ballot paper as well as action consisting of a strike? Were they woried they would only get a majority on the 2nd question. My members thought especially after DW assurance that CWU calling for action short of a strike would be possible but as we now know CWU can not take industrial action short of a strike (the law classes OT bans as action short of a strike therefore the CWU can not call for OT ban. Voluntary OT bans and working to 318 will be patchworky across the country wereas it could be solid if CWU had put action short of strike as well on ballot paper. Minium cost to membership using logic means action short of strike, not action consisting of a strike.

IA

11 Jun 2007, 21:11

The reasons that the CWU did not opt for work to rule or overtime bans is as follows

It is estimated that it would take 4,000 extra bodies to cover the overtime and good will we provide each day. Royal Mail have a team of 6,000 senior managers ready to travel the Country as flyimg strike breakers so the CWU and more importantly the members would have been left red-faced by the action if it went ahead!

So all in all the only way to hit Royal mail hard is to strike. This does not mean all out. It does not even mean all day. What about for example every delivery worker 'cutting off' 2 hours early for 4 days in a row?? This would lead to only one days lost pay for us and 100,000 cut-offs every day for 6,000 managers to deal with!!!

We could also do the same thing in Processing and Distribution with them walking out at dispatch times

At this point we must keep assuring the members that we are 100% committed to reaching a negotiated settlement and it is management driving us towards a strike!

good idea to lovejoy

11 Jun 2007, 21:19

Good idea lovejoy about cutting off 2 hours earlier each day....

Re: IA

11 Jun 2007, 21:28

lovejoy wrote:The reasons that the CWU did not opt for work to rule or overtime bans is as follows

It is estimated that it would take 4,000 extra bodies to cover the overtime and good will we provide each day. Royal Mail have a team of 6,000 senior managers ready to travel the Country as flyimg strike breakers so the CWU and more importantly the members would have been left red-faced by the action if it went ahead!

So all in all the only way to hit Royal mail hard is to strike. This does not mean all out. It does not even mean all day. What about for example every delivery worker 'cutting off' 2 hours early for 4 days in a row?? This would lead to only one days lost pay for us and 100,000 cut-offs every day for 6,000 managers to deal with!!!

We could also do the same thing in Processing and Distribution with them walking out at dispatch times

At this point we must keep assuring the members that we are 100% committed to reaching a negotiated settlement and it is management driving us towards a strike!



Thanks

You have made things clearer, shame DW couldnt do that. We still have a new propaganda battle to deal with though from RM preaching the law of the land on IA ballots to our mmebers! We need to stop new propaganda not just simply deal with what we have already!

12 Jun 2007, 13:35

RM Solicitors contacted CWU solicitors regarding my office claiming we we're unlawfully working to rule.
After an intervention from HQ,CWU solicitors sent a reply back.
No further action to be taken!

Tripping up on work to rule....

12 Jun 2007, 16:45

A strike is always the better option.....

If you "work to rule" and someone within your office failed to follow the exact procedure down to the letter, the managers would have instructions to jump all over the postie....suspending them, which would leave no option but an unofficial walkout.....PLAYING INTO RMs HANDS.......!!!!!!

I have known of a mail centre dispute where a senior postman was selected to travel to the mail centre to collect mail ( and cross the picket line ) - knowing full well he would NOT CROSS A PICKET LINE.......on his return to the D.O. he was suspended for refusing an order......then the whole office was out in support.....THUS ROYAL MAIL DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY POSTIES DO DO NOTHING BECAUSE OF NO MAIL FROM THE MAIL CENTRE

SO BE CAREFUL......BUT DONT GIVE UP.......WERE NOT AS DUMB AS THE THINK WE ARE

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