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Is it 3-1/2 hrs or not?

19 Dec 2006, 00:36

Agreement
Town Residential routes will be planned on a 3.5-hour delivery span. All routes will be planned on the basis of
equalisation, and a fair and manageable workload. The planning process will have the full involvement of the CWU and employees.


I'm hearing horror stories of 4hrs even 5+.
I was also told by a Manager that the walking to a pouch box and back is not included in the 3-1/2hrs as well.
Personally i think that last one is bollox.
So what's the protocol if we're out and we're going to go over the 3-1/2hrs limit,even if we're still in our duty time?
I've actually gone nearly 4hrs before,but finished it cause 1:I'm unsure and 2:I'm wondering if it's all worth the hassle.
I can't seem to get a straight answer out of anyone.
Anybody had any experience with this?

19 Dec 2006, 19:16

geo route sets out a 3 1/2 hour del all in ,set at 1 of 2 walking speeds about 3mph no mention is made off pouch boxs hills terrain local difficulties etc these variables are taken into concern when negotiations start between mngrs and staff all factors are supposed to be accounted for within your del span including travel and return to nearest post office for form lefts etc.
if you are still in duty time not meal relief then you continue with the del until time or del is finished,if you are going to cut of tel your boss before you leave not at dinner time(if they answer the phone) but if you cut of you better have a reason but dont forget the whole duty travel,sorting,prep and del has to be able to fit into your allocated hours whatever they may be dont forget your meal relief

20 Dec 2006, 23:03

Ok 1st of all Geo Route is new to us down here my Rep hasn't heard of it.
When the sdd came in for us it was right at the end of the implement date and our SOM (lying kaniving c***)pratically forced it unto us,
with no walk checks he said there was no way to check the walks,they did not have the facilities.
We used to have pegasus which was thrown out by RM as it threw up extra walks for us.

I understand what you're saying and i do know the in's and out's of bits but......
My point is,there is a national agreement that the walks will be for 3-30hrs,RM wanted 4hrs the Union stopped that.
The 3-30hrs del span was even mentioned in The Voice this Month as someone had a query with it in the letters page.
So by my reckoning no Manager can force anyone to go over 3-30hrs regardless of what the time is,so we have the right to cut off and come back to the DO to finish our duty.
There is of course the 'job and knock' thing,and for the sake of an extra 1/2hr or so it's obviously easier to just finish the darned thing.
But stories of an extra hr+ just ain't on.

It may be petty and we may be splitting hairs,but why should we let them continue to take the piss out of us.
Can you see my point?

21 Dec 2006, 18:22

point seen geo route is the current name for pegasus the only sticking point with it is the 3.30 hrs lark there seems to be a large difference between what it thinks we can cover in that time and what we can cover 13 full timers not needed according to the computer seems funny that we have so many people booking docket now but we can afford to loose 13 more we must have a lot of slow and lazy staff then
interesting point though our rep has been on the sick but we still held a meeting to discuss these points and voted to take some form of action our area rep turned up for a meeting the next day and told us to do exactly what the boss had told us and that we could expect no support from them must have left his suit at home that day

21 Dec 2006, 22:56

The bit i like about all this is we've been told that the walking to and from the pouch boxes does not count as part of the 3-30-hrs.
Only when we're delivering Mail does it count,what a crock of shite eh.
Also Rocky,f**k your rep off pronto mate.

03 Jan 2007, 14:31

Tell the managers we want a demonstration from the computer if it thinks we can do a delivery in 3 1/2 hours. Some people in the subs where I work are out till 4 or 5pm.

05 Jan 2007, 00:00

fit2drop wrote:Tell the managers we want a demonstration from the computer if it thinks we can do a delivery in 3 1/2 hours. Some people in the subs where I work are out till 4 or 5pm.

So they are going over the 3-1/2 hour time then? why?
The national agreement says..........

05 Jan 2007, 15:36

Today for instance. Duty starts 6:30am. Mail has started to arrive at 7 - 7:15 (dont know why) so half an hour wasted there. I left office at 9:30 (one poor sod didnt get out until 11am) and back in office at 1:30pm. The walk itself was lighter than normal. The frame is well set out and the pouch boxes are in the right place. The other blokes frame is a total disgrace and has just one drop off point so he has to keep coming back and forth. Long walks with lots of mail.

05 Jan 2007, 17:08

So fit2drop how'd that get through then,didn't you have a revision when the SDD started?

07 Jan 2007, 16:38

I started with RM just after SDD so I dont know what it was like before

07 Jan 2007, 18:03

Looking at your post regarding your walk,that seems ok ish.
Regarding the other walk,seems it's a bastard one,if this is a regular thing,then your rep should get involved and sort it out.

The walks would of (or should of) been looked at before ths sdd came in,you can't get them all the same,so there should only be marginal differences in them.
Maybe 1/2hr or so but not 2-3!!!

31 Jan 2007, 10:52

If you think that you will go over your time,do these 3 things:

Clear Down

Prep

Call your line manager and tell him that you won,t be able to finish in time.Either take the docket or not.
DO NOT TIE UP untill you,ve spoken to your rep than your line manager.Remember you need to stop your round half an hour
before you come back to the office,ie travel time back to the office,wash up,pouch off etc.

How the 3 and a half hour rule was worked out is if your duty time finsh is,for example 1.30.Than work backwards.
That means that:

1pm-10am delivery

1.30 to 1pm travel back to the office/pouch off/wash up

10.am is your first letter.

9.30 is your acceleration out.

8.50 is your meal relief

5.00am (if you start at that time): IPS,Prep,re-directions etc

All the above is thrown out really if members continue to start too early.What i say is that if you start an hour early than your duty start than per year you GIVE Royal Mail £200 per year!!!

31 Jan 2007, 22:36

Thanks drb,but my point is,and i'll give you an example.
Some of my colleagues although rarely and some of them on here,are on their walk longer than 3-30hrs.
So say for some reason my 1st letter is 9am,i've got s**t loads of work,at 12-30,3-30-hrs later i've still got say 1/2 hr to 1hrs amount of work to do.
My finishing time is say 1-45pm but i've done my 3-30hrs of walk work.
What am i or anybody else on here entitled to do,i'm not saying cut off and go home,but surely my 'National agreement' amount of work has been done.
Go back to the office to finish my duty?fair enough.
But can you see what i'm saying,there are people out there working longer than 3-30hrs some on docket,if they go over fair enough,but some not,it's being done in their duty time.
Can a Manager pull me,or anybody else if we stop?
Or is it a case of don't go out until say 9-30 as in your example,cause at times cause we're fast we are ready early.
But i've a feeling trouble would start if we delayed going out,plus some of the others here wouldn't be happy......

31 Jan 2007, 23:29

to ALL! just do your 3-30 hours do not come in at 3-4-5!!!!!!! COME ON!!
why do you think they are looking to make you work longer for less!!this will all come back on you and then bye!!! to full time hello part time its now!you have to stand up to them!!!!

31 Jan 2007, 23:43

sammysammy wrote:to ALL! just do your 3-30 hours do not come in at 3-4-5!!!!!!! COME ON!!
why do you think they are looking to make you work longer for less!!this will all come back on you and then bye!!! to full time hello part time its now!you have to stand up to them!!!!

Deaf ears me thinks,you would of thought some of 'em would of learnt their lesson after the SDD. :roll:

01 Feb 2007, 08:32

The new "cars on delivery agreement could sort this out.In it, it says that you could possibly have to
drop out someone who is near your walk.Also your insurance would have to specify that you use
your car for business use.How they are going to police this is beyond me.
Also if you don,t sign it but you still use your car,will you get tugged for that?
The agreement also states that the vehicle is their responsibility for your walk duration,
however it is not their responsibility for any damages incurred bar third party insurance.
I think that if we had a half decent wage with a 35 hour week i,d be more than happy to work my
time,and i,d tell members that you have nothing to complain about.As it stands now
i tell management,"lets talk efficiencys BUT lets make the walks more accurate instead of you
throwing half thought figures" I say put the walks through the Geo-route and sit there with the
planner and go through every walk,every path,every bag.
I,ve sat with the planners but was only one of two reps who did!
Every rep in every office HAS to be involved,as per the national agreement on savings.
Reps are also entitled to training on Geo route before any planning commences.

01 Feb 2007, 11:45

To pick up on what drb and sammysammy wrote this is the easiest way to cover yourself:
1. Come in on time; if your office is efficient with regards to indoor work you shouldn't be ready to go out until the specified time on your duty anyway.
2. Sign out; record what time you are leaving the office and if you're going out late inform your Line Manager.
3. Pouch drops should be included within your delivery span, so if you're waiting for one make a note of it.
4. Cut off; if you've delivered for 3 and a half hours why should you stay out there!!!
5. Sign back; again record what time you get back.
I know it isn't rocket science but you would be surprised at the amount of people who can't be bothered to do thes simple things.
Also to Postman, who sorted out duties where the end of delivery is 1 and a quarter hours before the end of the duty? I hope that was hypothetical? :pray

01 Feb 2007, 14:12

Snatch wrote:To pick up on what drb and sammysammy wrote this is the easiest way to cover yourself:
1. Come in on time; if your office is efficient with regards to indoor work you shouldn't be ready to go out until the specified time on your duty anyway.
2. Sign out; record what time you are leaving the office and if you're going out late inform your Line Manager.
3. Pouch drops should be included within your delivery span, so if you're waiting for one make a note of it.
4. Cut off; if you've delivered for 3 and a half hours why should you stay out there!!!
5. Sign back; again record what time you get back.
I know it isn't rocket science but you would be surprised at the amount of people who can't be bothered to do thes simple things.
Also to Postman, who sorted out duties where the end of delivery is 1 and a quarter hours before the end of the duty? I hope that was hypothetical? :pray


Number 4 is what i've been looking for,so to cut off and come back to the office to finish your duty there SHOULD be no come back then?
If you wanted it that way that is.

Number 1 is a joke around many offices as you probably well know,there are blokes in my place chomping at the bit and screwing cause the missorts are late,their cars are running while they're waiting ffs :roll:

As for the 1-1/4hrs before duty times thing lol,on easy days which we obviously do get it can sometimes happen.
But sometimes it's really tight,and i'm going over 3-30hrs hence this thread.
I don't use a car and i get dropped off ect,sometimes i can get an hour or so ,but i don't take my full break,because i'll hold others in my van back.
If we done it at our place full shabang,we'd cut off quite a bit.

01 Feb 2007, 14:55

What's the offical time of departure from your office and What is your DOM'S view on people going out without your office maintaining a clear office policy?

01 Feb 2007, 14:57

Snatch wrote:What's the offical time of departure from your office and What is your DOM'S view on people going out without your office maintaining a clear office policy?

God knows on the 1st one,and we always clear,then whossssssssh we're out the door.

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