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Changes to deliveries within our office...

01 Jun 2007, 23:54

I realise that I could just get onto my local Union room about this and the other matter I have raised but I thought here I would get a varied opinion so....
I understand that there is currently a freeze on any office revisions in regards to financial savings due to the current dispute. However, before all of this, we had agreed to make some changes to some duties within the office. Now, our manager is suggesting that since these changes were agreed before the current moratorium (I've probably misspelt that but...pfft!) on revisions that it should go ahead regardless. Is this the case or should we be digging our feet in (the revision involves the absorbing of one drive duty amongst 3 walks and one drive and the EVR of one of our staff). I don't want to stop the fella from leaving (who could blame him!?!) but if this is against Union guidance then I would like to know so the matter can be raised with our manager. I am not bringing this up for my own gain (if anything, my round will improve under the new proposals), just for the record!

02 Jun 2007, 04:09

Let the fella have his EVR and cover his walk with O/T, you dont want things getting to the stage were he just leaves and dosent get the money EVR brings.

Re plot the walks if they need it but on the basis of not taking any rounds out!

02 Jun 2007, 05:00

He has over 20 years service so I don't think he'll just leave! However, I can imagine RM not giving him his EVR/monies until we accept the changes. So you are of the opinion that there should be no revision of the duties even though the agreement predates the current dispute, yes?

02 Jun 2007, 12:33

The union have stated that there should be no agreements on changes to attendances times or effiency savings while we are in dispute with RM, in regrards to your situation, i would have to ask have the staff agreed to these changes and how long have you had this agreement? and do the staff feel it is reasonable for the changes to go ahead in the current climate? are you getting any savings towards the office for removing a duty? as at the moment nothing is agreed nationally on office savings as the current effiency agreement has expired.

Me personally in my office i would be stalling as long as possible to see what comes out in the coming weeks, unlucky on the guy who's getting evr, but you have to think of the people who are left behind, that should always be the main factor when removing duties and remember that job has gone forever.

02 Jun 2007, 20:42

Pokemon Postmon wrote:He has over 20 years service so I don't think he'll just leave! However, I can imagine RM not giving him his EVR/monies until we accept the changes. So you are of the opinion that there should be no revision of the duties even though the agreement predates the current dispute, yes?



If you keep the same number of duties you could simply ingage in a tidying up exercise of routes.

What finacial benefit to your office is there by doing it now? NONE!

Remember you get 50% of savings that are made over and above the DOM'S saving target, if you wait on the savings and see if a proper aggrement is made were you get 50% of ALL savings.

In my office the DOM is tasked with a 5% saving which equates to 125 hours. So if we get 126 hours savings all the staff get is 50% of 1 hour.

I dont know if its standard across RM but in my office the 5% is off of each section of the budget. The budget is core work hours, sick leave hours, training hours, annual leave hours.

The questions i need answers to is would we still get our 50% if only one section of the budget got 5% saving or does it have to be over the full 125 hours?

5% of core work hours in my office is 71 hours which is the equivilent of 1 FT duty and 1 PT duty. IMPOSSIBLE! NOT WHILE I AM REP WILL WE LOSE DELIVERIES AGGREMENT OR NO AGGREMENT ON EFFICIENCY.

The fact that 2000 houses are being built on our patch does not seem to sink into the brains of top brass.

Re: Changes to deliveries within our office...

03 Jun 2007, 07:39

Pokemon Postmon wrote:I realise that I could just get onto my local Union room about this and the other matter I have raised but I thought here I would get a varied opinion so....
I understand that there is currently a freeze on any office revisions in regards to financial savings due to the current dispute. However, before all of this, we had agreed to make some changes to some duties within the office. Now, our manager is suggesting that since these changes were agreed before the current moratorium (I've probably misspelt that but...pfft!) on revisions that it should go ahead regardless. Is this the case or should we be digging our feet in (the revision involves the absorbing of one drive duty amongst 3 walks and one drive and the EVR of one of our staff). I don't want to stop the fella from leaving (who could blame him!?!) but if this is against Union guidance then I would like to know so the matter can be raised with our manager. I am not bringing this up for my own gain (if anything, my round will improve under the new proposals), just for the record!


In our office we did some savings earlier in the year,this was done on the understanding that we would gain an extra full time duty, now I am being told that they will not allow us another 40hour contract so they want to make two 20hours instead, If I was you I would tell your dom no way as they move the goalposts all the time then so can we

03 Jun 2007, 08:41

THE DOM AT MY OFFICE IS TRYING TO SNEAKILY SAVE 20HRS. WE'VE GOT A GIRL RETURNING AFTER MATERNITY ON A PART TIME CONTRACT, WHICH SHE IS TOTALLY ENTITLED TO DO. A PART TIME POST WOMAN WANTS TO GO FULL TIME BUT SHE'S BEEN TOLD NO. HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DISCUSS IT COS THE DOMS ON LEAVE. WE ARE CURRENTLY AT STAGE 3 DISAGREEMENT WITH THE ORIGINAL OFFICE PROPOSALS WHICH DOESN'T INCLUDE THIS 20HR CUT.
Q. IF HE PROCEEDS WITH IT CAN IT BE CONSTRUDE AS EXECUTIVE ACTION. ( HE NEVER PUT A PROPOSAL TO ME ABOUT IT)

03 Jun 2007, 08:53

yes to EXECUTIVE ACTION

04 Jun 2007, 00:17

Thanks everyone! I am on leave this week now and he is planning to bring the changes into the office the week I return so I will have to get this info to other members in the office in time for the WTL session. I did not realise that the savings agreement had expired and I don't think anyone else knows this in the office either. I think that is the clincher for digging our feet in as if there's no gain from it other than the one member getting his EVR then it just cannot be allowed to go ahead. I shall contact my local Union Room in the morning.

12 Jun 2007, 23:03

Just an update...
I returned from my hols to find that the new duties have yet to be implemented as the member taking EVR has two weeks leave yet. At one point in the morning, the manager sidled up to me and said that the funding for the pouch boxes was agreed and they hoped to have them in by the end of the month so until the changes came in, could I wing it by bundling this up here and taking some from a frame over there, etc. Now, I didn't spell this out earlier, but our part of the agreement was that all the pouch boxes, the frames and coded bundles would be in place from day one (The reason for this being we've been promised 'equipment' like this before with 'The Way Forward' and it is still outstanding!).
I was non-commital about what he said, hoping to bring it up in todays WTL. Anyway, I later found out that the during the WTL when I was on leave, this matter about our 'agreement' was raised to him by at least two of the staff concerned and yet he neglected to mention that to me on Monday for some reason...devicive or what?! I can see it coming up in the next WTL and it'll be 'Well, PP agreed to it' even though I did no such thing, just did not challenge him there and then. I should have , in hindsight, as the WTL was cut short this morning due to a DOMs meeting so I was unable to raise this matter.
Admittedly, after seeking advice from my local area rep, it would seem that since these changes were agreed to before the current ban on efficiency savings and revisions that they will go ahead unchallenged. Is this right? Not sure myself but what can I say? I would say that they will get the boxes in, etc once they have to start paying out for the OT to cover the driver's duty that is being absorbed.
I am concerned by what was mentioned about the current 'efficiancy' agreement having expired and would like more info on that if possible.
:shock:

12 Jun 2007, 23:24

I'l let the others deal with the hard bits,the guys in the know,but i'll say this.
You wont get your pouch box's in,thats guaranteed,if you're still waiting on the SDD ones what chance have you got.
Getting funding means naff all,we had funding for ours for nearly 3 years :roll:
The other bundle here frame f***ing there bollox,what s**t is that all about,if the stuff aint in place do naff all.
They're talking bollox.
As for cutting the WTLL short,they can't do that can they,if you've got summin to say,say it,you've got 30 mins.

The whole shabang is takin the piss if the stuff aint in place do nothing!

Over to the clever ones now :Very Happy

14 Jun 2007, 11:22

ANY SAVINGS MANAGERS ARE DOING ARE PURELY FOR THEIR OFFICE BUDGETS .THER IS NO FINANCIAL GAIN FOR STAFF EXCEPT FOR THE PEOPLE GETTING VRS . IF YOUR NOT HAPPY WITH THE CHANGES GOING THROUGH THEN GO THROUGH THE IR FRAMEWORK UNLESS THERE IS A SIGNED AGREEMENT FOR THE CHANGES GO TO DIAGREEMENT.

14 Jun 2007, 13:24

NO AGREEMENTS ON ANY SAVINGS !!!!!!!! IF THE D.O.M.S DON'T LISTEN THEN GET YOUR LETTERS OF DISAGREEMENTS IN AND LIST EVERYTHING THATS GOING WRONG . . .GET THE OFFICE IN THE KNOW BECAUSE ONCE THE EVR CANDIDATES GO , THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF REPLACING THEM !!!! GET INVOLVED DON'T LET THESE C***S GET AWAY WITH IT . . IF YOUR A REP LETS START BULLYING THE MANAGEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 :lfo :cfo

changes.......

15 Jun 2007, 14:57

In my office we had an agreement for savings verbally BUT NOT IN WRITING. There is nothing signed. When the April deadline passed for reaching a national pay agreement I wrote to my DOM and informed him that due to the national situation I was withdrawing all cooperation on the savings projects. As there was no written agreement in existance at that time he was unable to introduce the plan. Still hasn't. The plan included a number of EVR packages which were agreed and signed up to before I withdrew cooperation. They have had to honour these and the members concerned are due to leave next week. (if the EVR/VR offers were already made and accepted - signed and returned by the individuals they cannot prevent them from leaving - it is a legally binding document).

Don't be hoodwinked by your manager - if you haven't signed an agreement they cannot introduce any savings without you doing so. If they try to do so, use the IR Framework and register disagreement straight away.

15 Jun 2007, 20:54

Hmmmm....I'll have to check back with our area rep. Our local office is also without a rep and although the savings were agreed with a vote on the floor, I'm not sure whether or not anything has been signed by our rep and manager. Thanks again, both. I'll keep you informed...oh, the manager's gonna be so pissed off if he didn't get it in writing! Lol!
:Very Happy

16 Jun 2007, 12:09

another point i might raise is the way full time duties are being replaced with part timers ... our d.o.m. thinks he can do this , however when the people who have taken e.v.r eventually leave i will be demanding those duties go up for picking, and have already signed off a letter of disagreement .
Another question i leave open to anyone to reply to is the issue of overtime . . our D.O.M. has decided to only allocate- 6 hours for working your day off on a full time duty ?????????? and 3 hours for half a walk ????????? wednesday to friday you will get 7 hours ???????? OUTRAGEOUS !!!!!!!!!!! HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS ?

ZERO TOLERANCE TO ANY MANAGEMENT SAVINGS..... :cfo :lfo

16 Jun 2007, 13:00

Regarding the OT changes,yes,it's everywhere.

16 Jun 2007, 13:26

zaveroni, if they are only paying 6 hours, are they reducing your workload at all? Pulling you off the sorting or having the frame sorted in for you and a later start, for example? Haven't worked my day off for sometime now but I know the manager has mentioned these things. I try to avoid O/T as I have issues regarding the Tax Credits...whenever I make any extra money, they take it back from me!! Tsk! That's another problem though. :roll:

16 Jun 2007, 13:43

I don't do Docket for the Lineo on principle. He's nearly stopped asking me. But there are guys who will pay you a minimum of £10 to do a bag for them. If its not too bad or too far away I do it then. Lineo gets the hump when he hears.

16 Jun 2007, 14:15

I have a OT aggrement in writing with my DOM.

If you perform the full duty content then you book the full duty hours.

If dont do IPS then a hour and a half is knocked off.

Overtime can be booked for as long as it takes, so if you are doing delivery only and it takes 5 hours you book 5 hours rather than 3 and a half hours.

2 hours 15 mins for prepping a round if you are only doing that.

3 hours 30 mins for delivery if doing delivery only.

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