WHATEVER THE SPLIT ITS THE UNITED ACTION AFTER THAT COUNTS

[lovejoy]

Just to say that whatever the result of the now ongoing national ballot we must stick together once the result is announced.

If it is a YES then we must make the best of the document and Branches will have to step up and take responsibility for their members

And If its a NO then people who will vote YES must get 100% behind the campaign to better the agreement.

That is what the union and democracy is all about!

Whatever the result everyone would have had plenty of chance to have their say. Obviously those hoping for a YES have the backing of the national unions propaganda machine but equally branches going for a NO have had the opportunity to communicate their views.

Sites like this have also enabled us to have a more in depth and diverse debate than ever!

One of my main bug bearers with people who are recommending NO is a lack of strategy to take the dispute forward.

This needs to be addressed because time will be very short between the result and xmas.

I have read many views saying IF there is a No then we should wait to after Christmas because we wouldn't get public backing etc.

In my view IF we get a no vote then we MUST at least threaten Christmas action. This tool is and always will be our most powerful! In addition to this how can we say we want to take you on but lets get Christmas out of the way first.

It may upset and P*** off the public but quite frankly the unions lost mass public backing years ago.

This is our Industrial dispute and we should use any means possible to bring it to a head. This would also put massive political pressure on the Government to step in and not just ignore us.

My strategy IF i was calling for a No would be a strike on Friday 21st DEC and Monday 24th. This would (a) leave time for pressure to build on Royal Mail and the Gov (b) if it went ahead mean people got longer break for xmas which could be popular and (c) would be past the cut off dates for Christmas pay which would help at that time of the year and (d) we would have the threat of all those undelivered xmas presents - harsh but very bloody powerful!

Like I have previously said I support a YES vote but I will support the majority vote 100%. I have given some tactics as a suggestion. Anyone else got any ideas / thoughts?

I love it when Mrs L is at her aerobics class, i am let loose

[semacsorter]

Good move but i think you will find either RM or the CWU have already stopped that one votes have to be in by the 27th Noon notice has to be given by the 13th can you see them counting the votes ratifying the vote and makeing a decision in 13 days ??? considering how long the last lot took !!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Coming from the NO camp Lovejoy, there is nothing you have just posted that I can find fault with. The die is cast and whichever way the result goes we must support the outcome to our fullest, and it does not matter 1 iota what your original position was.

Brilliant post - again.

[lovejoy]

Good move but i think you will find either RM or the CWU have already stopped that one votes have to be in by the 27th Noon notice has to be given by the 13th can you see them counting the votes ratifying the vote and making a decision in 13 days ??? considering how long the last lot took !!

Well thats where the campaign for NO must be ready mate. You can't just say no. For example a member/rep/branch could write to one of the PEC members who voted no and make a proposal and this could be debated!

13 days is plenty - The pressure will be immense on HQ

Obviously this is all IF there is a NO but the people leading the campaign must have the answers / stratefy which goes back to a point that i made earlier and I noticed it was made in our ballot insert today - The people calling for no have no alternatives.

I think they would have got lots more support if when they met in London (although there was a poor turnout) they agreed a full strategy was agreed. this could have then been circulated via email, on here and through branches. It would have given some real leadership to campaign.

[semacsorter]

Lovejoy
I agree i and my wife will vote no but with the present union leadership what is the alternative i hope a no vote will at least get them to fall on their swords ( fat chance )

[semacsorter]

It follows if we all vote No that the exec resign we put all I A on hold elect a new leadership with a simple mandate and start again OR is that naive ?

[dvbuk55]

The best strategy is the on everyone ignores!

Doing the Job properly! No cars, no early starts, no overtime. This strategy would bring many offices to a standstill and cause chaos throughout RM. If it is a no vote then there should be a concerted effort to get full time officials going out to reinforce the idea.

[lovejoy]

Lovejoy
I agree i and my wife will vote no but with the present union leadership what is the alternative i hope a no vote will at least get them to fall on their swords ( fat chance )

Yeah fair point mate but if there is no direction coming from anywhere else it will enable things to drift on!

Its like when you have a row with your wife. If she says she wants to paint your lounge white and you want it blue then you have to talks her out of white and into blue and if you're really good you let her think it was her decision.

At the moment there isn't nobody in the vote no leadership convincing me to paint the room blue

[lovejoy]

The best strategy is the on everyone ignores!

Doing the Job properly! No cars, no early starts, no overtime. This strategy would bring many offices to a standstill and cause chaos throughout RM. If it is a no vote then there should be a concerted effort to get full time officials going out to reinforce the idea.

Agreed mate but i bet you were saying that 15-20 years ago? People can't se further than the end of their noses and would rather lose £50 a day striking than just use their cars for a concerted period. Madness

[lovejoy]

It follows if we all vote No that the exec resign we put all I A on hold elect a new leadership with a simple mandate and start again OR is that naive ?

The officer and PEC have been elected for a period of office mate so regardless of what happens they will (i would have thought) see out the period until the elections (EC ones usually start about FEB)

[semacsorter]

DV has the right idea vote no all work correctly slow RM down while we find a true and strong leadership

[dvbuk55]

The best strategy is the on everyone ignores!

Doing the Job properly! No cars, no early starts, no overtime. This strategy would bring many offices to a standstill and cause chaos throughout RM. If it is a no vote then there should be a concerted effort to get full time officials going out to reinforce the idea.

Agreed mate but i bet you were saying that 15-20 years ago? People can't se further than the end of their noses and would rather lose £50 a day striking than just use their cars for a concerted period. Madness

You're right - we once had a go at it about 15+ years ago - it didn't work.

[Geordie]

The ballot result is on 27th November - the national leadership should call a National Briefing for 28th or 29th November.

In this way if it's a yes vote, HQ can give their views on how (and which parts) of the agreement can be implemented across the board. eg Area wide agreements on working in other offices.

If it's a no vote, the brieifng can be used to find out WHY Branches recommended rejection. Then they can go in and re-negotiate, and report back to the EC.

And that would leave time for industrial action before Christmas...

[mailman71]

lets hope the majority of the membership vote,if we win the no vote and half the people dont bother their arses voting crozier will say its a false vote but if a big percentage of members vote and its a no vote then that smug grin will soon dissapear from his ugly mug

[IWW Fellow Worker]

I reckon it will depend on how the 'management' poltroons behave if we lose the vote. Let's face it, when it comes to industrial relations, the screws are always a liability.