bullying and harrasment or conduct code

bigsharkboy · Post by **bigsharkboy** » 02 Nov 2007, 22:38

got a guy in my office who put in a B+H complaint against another member he made it official and today the guy got a letter saying that his complaint is not B+H and will now be treated as a conduct code issue

has anybody else had experience of this

would this outcome be better for the guy who had threats made to him

my office have your say results said that B+H was a major issue in my office and the cynic in me thinks RM would rahter treat it as a conduct issue rather than B+H to keep there figures down

sorry cant go into detail for obvious reasons

but wondering if this has happened elsewhere

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 02 Nov 2007, 22:42

bigsharkboy wrote:got a guy in my office who put in a B+H complaint against another member he made it official and today the guy got a letter saying that his complaint is not B+H and will now be treated as a conduct code issue

has anybody else had experience of this

would this outcome be better for the guy who had threats made to him

my office have your say results said that B+H was a major issue in my office and the cynic in me thinks RM would rahter treat it as a conduct issue rather than B+H to keep there figures down

sorry cant go into detail for obvious reasons

but wondering if this has happened elsewhere

It's a new one on me. Like yours, our office had B&H as a major issue on the HYS forms and we await the outcome of the latest HYS which are almost two months old now. However, B&H cases are always dealt with as such, and most end up amicably settled before they ever get higher than the DUM.

bigsharkboy · Post by **bigsharkboy** » 02 Nov 2007, 22:51

sent area rep a text for advice cause i think the guilty party will get off lighter with a conduct code than if it went down as a B+H case as this is not the 1st time the guilty guy has had a B+H made against him (and hes a filthy scab)

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 02 Nov 2007, 22:58

bigsharkboy wrote:sent area rep a text for advice cause i think the guilty party will get off lighter with a conduct code than if it went down as a B+H case as this is not the 1st time the guilty guy has had a B+H made against him (and hes a filthy scab)

Not much chance of an amicable settlement there then. Let him swing mate. I know you can't go into detail, but is it was sexual, religious or racial harrassment, I would apply the 'Ways and Means' Act.

bigsharkboy · Post by **bigsharkboy** » 02 Nov 2007, 23:02

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
bigsharkboy wrote:sent area rep a text for advice cause i think the guilty party will get off lighter with a conduct code than if it went down as a B+H case as this is not the 1st time the guilty guy has had a B+H made against him (and hes a filthy scab)
Not much chance of an amicable settlement there then. Let him swing mate. I know you can't go into detail, but is it was sexual, religious or racial harrassment, I would apply the 'Ways and Means' Act.

just to clarify the scab was the agressor the guy who made the complaint wasnt and it wasnt any of the above it was a senior (scab) postie whos a real nasty piece of work who made threats and other things which not really able to get into on here

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 02 Nov 2007, 23:17

bigsharkboy wrote:
IWW Fellow Worker wrote:
bigsharkboy wrote:sent area rep a text for advice cause i think the guilty party will get off lighter with a conduct code than if it went down as a B+H case as this is not the 1st time the guilty guy has had a B+H made against him (and hes a filthy scab)
Not much chance of an amicable settlement there then. Let him swing mate. I know you can't go into detail, but is it was sexual, religious or racial harrassment, I would apply the 'Ways and Means' Act.
just to clarify the scab was the agressor the guy who made the complaint wasnt and it wasnt any of the above it was a senior (scab) postie whos a real nasty piece of work who made threats and other things which not really able to get into on here

A real 'tangled web'. I'd be interested to see how this works out.

bigsharkboy · Post by **bigsharkboy** » 02 Nov 2007, 23:21

me too

guys are being interviewed next week

why i asked the question im hoping the scab will get the book thrown at him (some would say about time) and think if it goes down the conduct code he will get a slap on the wrist rather than the more serious B+H

L Tommo · Post by **L Tommo** » 03 Nov 2007, 22:01

H&B ALL THE WAY.. In my opinion...

I had trouble with HR when i sent my H&B case in the move was for it to be down graded to a greivence.... I said no and it stood as a H&B case...

RM dont want H&B cases fullstop... Looks bad and they have to answer them... Thats why they get so nasty if you put one in against a screw or screws....

I found this out and then after all that RM found me guilty of a C of C against the screws i accused in first place....

TWISTED LIKE A FECKING CORK-SCREW....

The fact the aggresor is a scab.,.. H&B ALL THE WAY... LET HIM SWING AND LONG AND HIGH!!!

OUT...

Post by **Zorro** » 04 Nov 2007, 07:02

The trouble is, it is easy to label everything as H&B when it quite clearly isnt.

ie: A guy/guyess is working at a sorting frame and someone walks past and punches/flicks/kicks/swats/slaps/touches them and they do this every time they pass the sorter. ........ This is quite clearly a case of bullying.

A guy/guyess is working at a sorting frame and someone walks past and swears at them/calls them names/makes a comment etc, directed at them and they do this every time they pass the sorter...... This is clearly harassment.

As in bigsharkboy`s case, someone being aggressive isnt H&B sorry to say...unless it has been repeatedly going on over a period of/or a long time?. Now, if aggressor is shouting/swearing/threatening someone as a one off situation, then this is a conduct issue and his working manner should be brought into conduct and if i was representing a member ie: the victim, i would be asking management to remove aggressor from the working section so they keep apart from each other.

If you are asking is a conduct code less punishment, i would say no! If aggressor guy has a warning for his conduct (aggressive attitude) and say, six months later he starts to verbally abuse victim again or anyone else, it could then be taken as harassment and dealt with as such.

IMHO

madelin4 · Post by **madelin4** » 04 Nov 2007, 10:51

One for you, what would you consider not bullying by a manager?

wolfie citizen smith · Post by **wolfie citizen smith** » 05 Nov 2007, 21:19

bigsharkboy
are you saying that the member who made the complaint is now being taken down the conduct code as there complaint was not unheld or the member who had the complaint made against them is being taken down the conduct code.

for further refrence though Royal Mail Management love paperwork it gives them a feeling of self importance within the company, so you should always advise members to start with the Individual Grievance Procedure, management have to respond within 5 working days, if however the member does not get the outcome desired from the line manager the next step will be part 2 of the IGP which involes the line managers manager, normally this process will suffice and the perpetrator will be counselled or even be taken down the conduct code, however if this process has not made the perpetrator think again then you use the bullying and harrasment procedure.

hope this helps

L Tommo · Post by **L Tommo** » 05 Nov 2007, 21:40

Wolfie.... Same thing happened to me and im STILL fighting it after nearly 3 years.....

Oh and RM want to make me redundant on Ill health.... Im appealing....

RM think they are a law unto themselves

OUT

bigsharkboy · Post by **bigsharkboy** » 05 Nov 2007, 22:44

wolfie citizen smith wrote:bigsharkboy
are you saying that the member who made the complaint is now being taken down the conduct code as there complaint was not unheld or the member who had the complaint made against them is being taken down the conduct code.

for further refrence though Royal Mail Management love paperwork it gives them a feeling of self importance within the company, so you should always advise members to start with the Individual Grievance Procedure, management have to respond within 5 working days, if however the member does not get the outcome desired from the line manager the next step will be part 2 of the IGP which involes the line managers manager, normally this process will suffice and the perpetrator will be counselled or even be taken down the conduct code, however if this process has not made the perpetrator think again then you use the bullying and harrasment procedure.

hope this helps

the member (scab)who had the complaint made against him ys being taken down the conduct code

thanks for all the advice

have spoken to area rep and the member who made the complaint and it seems the guilty party has admitted all the claims made about him by the members interview and written statement
the area reps advice is that as hes admitted it they are re-interviewing him by a more senior manager looking to punish him under the conduct code

hope the scabby fecker rots in hell (hes a real nasty piece of work)

wolfie citizen smith · Post by **wolfie citizen smith** » 06 Nov 2007, 09:42

Without knowing the full details about your case it is hard to make judgement. Royal Mail are playing a poker with you, pushing to have you removed from the business under IHR.
This can only be done via mutual consent, Occupational Health has a big role to play in this and would be in your interest to know exactly what there view is.
Did you agree for IHR to be concidered within the signed RMG consent form?
I would advise that you seek long term visits from a employee welfare advisor as all there cases are documented and regular visits to your own GP.
Once comrad all your bases are covered you can then go in for the kill had indeed have the business for Bullying and Harassment.

norbet colon · Post by **norbet colon** » 06 Nov 2007, 11:26

[quote="L Tommo"]H&B ALL THE WAY.. In my opinion...

I had trouble with HR when i sent my H&B case in the move was for it to be down graded to a greivence.... I said no and it stood as a H&B case...

RM dont want H&B cases fullstop... Looks bad and they have to answer them... Thats why they get so nasty if you put one in against a screw or screws....

I found this out and then after all that RM found me guilty of a C of C against the screws i accused in first place....

TWISTED LIKE A FECKING CORK-SCREW....

The fact the aggresor is a scab.,.. H&B ALL THE WAY... LET HIM SWING AND LONG AND HIGH!!!

not like Royal Fail to have things twisted round on it's head so someone / they can wriggle out of something ?

they will get nasty , The Lord Sawyer Report was scathingly critical of a culture dating back to Demobilization in 1945 , parts of that report got published giving RM a problem they'd prefer not to deal with . The aim is to discourage by making out things are in bad faith to teach people a lesson to put & shut up & eat s**t . Anal would say he'd have it all eradicated but he simply doesn't want any of it getting outside of RM giving RM a problem .Better that it stays swept under the carpet eh?

It's of course absolutely correct that you've got to go through channels and make sure it's down on paper, though RM don't go against their own , it gives staff a start outside the PO , otherwise RM would malign people as troublemakers & whistleblowers with dodgy motives to wriggle out of a corner .

You're dealing with people who'd sell their a***s in Woolworth's Window for Â£10, sell their own mothers to save their own skins and shop their own mates for the price of a pint , it's straight out of the "amoral " 90's . RM have always been defensive , secretive , autocratic & above the law but thanks to Sadamm & Anal and their Parasitical Senior/Area Managers you've the worst of the old & new RM cultures .

It's just a game with them and it obviously will be , couldn't agree more there , all depends on the stakes .
:lfo :cfo :lfo :cfo

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