Who do you tell next?

[Mezza]

Going to make this as brief as possible but basically having gone through the grievance procedure, then actually informed the DSM and even their boss, who is the next point of contact?

Should add have already contacted whistle blower and ask Moyra.

With regard to management malpractices in my DO - willfull delay, false scanning of tracked items and a whole host of other things.
Whistle blower just asked if i wanted the context of my report to be passed on to the area management team - not much point as it's them the complaint relates to and they already know about it.

So who next?

[POSTMAN]

Feck this still happening?
Area rep/branch/DIV/CWU HQ?
Go through the other doorway.

[Mezza]

Well it looked to be addressed when the DSM showed up and asked about the issues, but now nearly 4 months since that conversation things are actually not only the same but are getting worse.
A manager was seen placing a full tray of mail (first class items) under the bench of a lapsed walk today. When a postie asked if he should throw it off, he was told not to bother as it will get done tomorrow
This manager was until recent a WCM bod but was has now taken the managerial route and is one of the DSM's pets.

Also on the lapsed duty that 2 indoor staff take out there is a section that is covered daily on O/T (despite most of the office going home over an hour early). That section was not taken out yesterday - just left in the frame overnight - and added to with todays mail.
This is willfull delay and when i think of reasons given for staffs dismissal in the past, it is simply shocking.

The office rep doesn't care.
Area Rep does nothing about it.
May well try next line in the Union chain of command - thanks for the input.

[roger]

Well it looked to be addressed when the DSM showed up and asked about the issues, but now nearly 4 months since that conversation things are actually not only the same but are getting worse.
A manager was seen placing a full tray of mail (first class items) under the bench of a lapsed walk today. When a postie asked if he should throw it off, he was told not to bother as it will get done tomorrow
This manager was until recent a WCM bod but was has now taken the managerial route and is one of the DSM's pets.

Also on the lapsed duty that 2 indoor staff take out there is a section that is covered daily on O/T (despite most of the office going home over an hour early). That section was not taken out yesterday - just left in the frame overnight - and added to with todays mail.
This is willfull delay and when i think of reasons given for staffs dismissal in the past, it is simply shocking.

The office rep doesn't care.
Area Rep does nothing about it.
May well try next line in the Union chain of command - thanks for the input.

[k979aaa]

Try this and let us know if it is dealt with in a speedy fashion http://www.cwu.org/bullying-and-harassment.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mudmonster]

I wouldn't bother with B&H it all goes under that nice lumpy carpet

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

A manager was seen placing a full tray of mail (first class items) under the bench of a lapsed walk today. When a postie asked if he should throw it off, he was told not to bother as it will get done tomorrow.

As long as it's being reported correctly then this practice you describe is actually allowed, this is not streaming of Mail being described it's holding back unprocessed mail, yes it's due for delivery but if a manager decides not to process it, that's his decision, he will have to justify it, though his dsm from what you describe will accept that reason but as long as it's being reported correctly it's allowed

Also on the lapsed duty that 2 indoor staff take out there is a section that is covered daily on O/T (despite most of the office going home over an hour early). That section was not taken out yesterday - just left in the frame overnight - and added to with todays mail.
This is willfull delay and when i think of reasons given for staffs dismissal in the past

What you have described is not actually wilful delay, just because Mail is left in frame overnight doesn't mean it's wilful delay, as long as the manager can say he tried to get it covered on overtime but no one would volunteer then the manager has not committed wilful delay, he has made reasonable attempts to get it delivered, ie lapsing part of duty and attempting to get it delivered on ot. He has not committed wilful delay over this, also worth pointing out, he doesn't have to then go out and deliver it either that's also his choice to do or not.

Basically if it's these actions above that you are complaining about I can see why your getting no where, although they are poor and unfavourable they are actually allowed, you also mentioned problems with scanning items depending on what they are there may be an issue there

HOWEVER and here's where things will probably fall down for your dom.

Mail failing to go out should be reported on the computer on a program called the DODR (daily office daily reporting) to do this he needs to accurately count the mail not gone out and then input the figures into this system, this system collates all the figures and goes towards the QOS score for the entire company this is where we get the 94% delivered first class on time etc if he is not inputting into this system or not doing it accurately then that is a big deal and moya will be interested in that

Mail not going out is one thing, if he however says after the mail is sorted in to leave a certain type of mail, ie leave the packets or leave the dsa mail etc that is called mail streaming and that is expressly been forbidden there has been ltb asking for it to be reported to union hq, if he is doing this then report that to hq and moya


There's lots of things managers do that posties think they are not allowed to, in reality they are allowed to do these things but usually the manager falls down as he then doesn't follow the correct procedures, knowledge is the key. A good switched on rep should know not only a posties job inside out but also the managers job inside out as well

And if all else completely fails a few pictures of undelivered mail to the local newspaper anonymously would solve it, though that could lead to a p45 for the sender if they were identified

[Mezza]

Have to admit i've been a little vague in describing some of the previous issues mentioned.
The tray of mail left for the next day may well have been reported correctly in the DODR, but i seriously doubt it. I used to be responsible one day a week (on cover for DOM Support) to fill in the DODR and items on hand was always zero. DOM support no longer does the DODR so can't say for sure it isn't being done correctly.

The items left on the duty i lapse may well have been reported correctly as well.

The issue here is that our DOM cannot be reporting these items correctly if we have at least 50% of staff going home early on a daily basis and by early i mean making at least 1-2 hours a day.
Linos ask staff to take a bit more out when/ if they return to the office, but usual answer is they have done some lapsing (usually out 10-20 mins extra) so they shouldn't have to take out any more and will not. They then go home and linos/ DOM does nothing.

The main issue behind the whole grievance procedure was in connection to surcharge and customs items. - DOM support is responsible for processing these items and when a 90 minute delivery was added to the duty it meant he failed his duty every day. He asked the DOM what he should prioritise and was told that surcharges and customs charges could wait.
These items built up over a 4-5 month period to the point that when he was able to write out the grey cards they were for items we had received some 3 -4 months earlier. We had Christmas cards, valentines, mothers day etc all just sitting there.
The DOM support emailed the DOM everyday to detail what he had failed. He asked the DOM many times what he intended to do about the issue but was fobbed off each time.
We had regular complaints from customers in the callers office about getting hospital appointment letters after their appointment. We had people chasing customs items on a daily basis.
The grievance procedure was ignored.
Discussions with the DSM improved nothing.
Local rep wasn't bothered.
Area rep wasn't bothered.
Whistle blower got us nowhere.
Ask Moyra got us nowhere.
Branch did nothing. - only just found out that branch was contacted.
HQ did nothing - as above.

The items were finally cleared when another staff member was paid overtime to clear it and for a few weeks the DOM support was excused the delivery - but he now has it back again.

It's the impact putting a lapsed duty onto indoor duties has caused that is the issue. There are 2 of us doing the whole delivery - about 90 mins delivery, but quite often we are throwing it off, redis' etc.
This means we fails aspects of our duties that were never an issue before.
The duty that is lapsed was forgotten in the revision - hence why it is lapsed each day.
All other lapsed duties get about 8 people at least to share it out between themselves.

The simple solution would be 'why worry?' just do your hours and let it pile up.
Try dealing with it everyday for months on end - watching staff going home early while you have to work your hours - with plenty of work around the office not being touched.
Trying to ignore it is easy when you can slope off early every day.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Have to admit i've been a little vague in describing some of the previous issues mentioned.
The tray of mail left for the next day may well have been reported correctly in the DODR, but i seriously doubt it. I used to be responsible one day a week (on cover for DOM Support) to fill in the DODR and items on hand was always zero. DOM support no longer does the DODR so can't say for sure it isn't being done correctly.

The items left on the duty i lapse may well have been reported correctly as well.

The issue here is that our DOM cannot be reporting these items correctly if we have at least 50% of staff going home early on a daily basis and by early i mean making at least 1-2 hours a day.

When staff go home early or not has nothing to do with whether he reported the items in the DODR correctly, just because people are going home early does not mean he is not reporting it correctly.

It's easy to tell if he is inputting the items on the DODR as he needs to count the items, he would need to empty that box and count each type of mail in it, if the box isn't touched then it hasn't been counted


As for who do you tell next well basically no one, you have a gripe as others are getting home early and you have to work to your time and you think that they should be made to clear work left in the office, fair enough it's a legitimate gripe but at the end of the day you are being paid as a postie to deliver your mail that's all you should worry about, if you want to do more and get things changed then apply to be a manager

[2pints]

Basically we are paid from the neck down then? Deliver mail and dont worry about anything else?

[Mezza]

You misunderstand............i've worked indoors for years and it's always been the case that delivery staff go home before indoor staff and make time.
I have never had a problem with that aspect.

The issue i have also isn't that there is work to be done and staff are allowed to leave early everyday.

The issue is that there are so called agreements and processes in place to address issues like this and yet despite going down every avenue open to us we have still got absolutely nowhere.

All over this forum staff are asking for help to address issues - more often than not i'm guessing these issues are resolved.
But there seems to be an increasing amount of staff whose issues are not resolved and that for me is the worry here.

Add to all that that our office revision was about 2 years ago and we still haven't had a resign.
Reason being that the DOM and Union Rep don't want it.
We have too many staff that have what they regard better duties than they had pre revision and they out weigh the staff who are now worse off (as the revision was a mess). Despite agreements saying we should have one as every duty has been affected in our DO - Area rep also aware of the situation - nothing has been done.

I guess it's good luck to anyone with an issue as it's 50/50 as to it being resolved or ignored, no matter how serious or what agreements are in place - they mean nothing in reality.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The issue is that there are so called agreements and processes in place to address issues like this and yet despite going down every avenue open to us we have still got absolutely nowhere.

again you keep changing what your complaining about. what exactly are the issues that you think exist?

ie
1 resign not taken place
2 mail being left in office
3 mail not being sorted in

You dont seem to be following these processes, you are writing to dom dsm moya etc complaining about things that are actually allowed to happen(if done correctly and you have no evidence they are not)

you have lodged a grievance which was incorrect it should have been a disagreement

you are saying that the correct procedures are not being followed, you are not even trying to follow them yourself

Add to all that that our office revision was about 2 years ago and we still haven't had a resign.

what did the rep reply in writing when he was asked in writing to lodge a stage 1 disagreement over the fact that a resign has not taken place?

We have too many staff that have what they regard better duties than they had pre revision and they out weigh the staff who are now worse off (as the revision was a mess). Despite agreements saying we should have one as every duty has been affected in our DO - Area rep also aware of the situation - nothing has been done.

What was the area reps reply when he was asked in writing about the resign? if the rep and area rep have given you written replies that you think dont match the national agreements you then go above them, but if you have not written to them to request something then nothing will be done

I guess it's good luck to anyone with an issue as it's 50/50 as to it being resolved or ignored, no matter how serious or what agreements are in place - they mean nothing in reality.

they do, issues are resolved when you follow the correct procedures, RM do not want the ir process to reach a ballot so if they are with holding something that is in a national agreement as soon as it reaches a stage 1 disagreement or stage 2 at most you will find that the issue will miraculously be resolved

[Spy]

Stage 1 & 2 disagreement. Don't make me laugh.

My rep lodged a stage 1 on my behalf. 3 weeks later my rep and myself received a letter from the DOM stating that because we had not attended the meeting we had been invited to, to discuss this issue, the disagreement was now closed. WE NEVER WERE INVITED.
I spoke to my area rep (20 years in this position) and he advised me to adhere to the DOMs suggestions and to take out a grievance.
Guess how that ended. Correct procedures ?? Bollocks !!

MEZZA : I'm assuming that your real issue is the FAILURE TO ACHIEVE CLEAR OFFICE POLICY WHEN PEOPLE ARE GOING HOME WELL BEFORE THEIR ACTUAL FINISHING TIME.
I totally agree with your many and varied gripes. Under the agenda for growth agreement it states fully utilise all paid hours. Allowing posties to go home early when there is quite clearly still work to do, IS WILFUL DELAY. Regardless of any bullshit reports(I've done them as well). I was conduct coded for 1 letter left in the IPS frame about 15 years ago so how can dozens ( hundreds, thousands) of items of mail be left in the RM2000 frames. No doubt somebody will give me answer.

RMG PLC. TOTALLY CORRUPT.