Interview under 2nd line conduct ?

[newtochat]

Hi all, my B&H complaint against a manager not upheld, because my witnesses did not back me up ( can't recall it, or don't remember..etc ) including so called deputy rep, they concluded the case. Further more I am accused of making the complaint in bad faith, and I should be interview under 2nd line conduct. What should I expect from this recommendation, and what does it mean.
What the CWU can and should do to help me fight this outcome. Any advice on this ?

[rehabron]

Hi all, my B&H complaint against a manager not upheld, because my witnesses did not back me up ( can't recall it, or don't remember..etc ) including so called deputy rep, they concluded the case. Further more I am accused of making the complaint in bad faith, and I should be interview under 2nd line conduct. What should I expect from this recommendation, and what does it mean.
What the CWU can and should do to help me fight this outcome. Any advice on this ?

It means that the interviewing manager in relation to your B&H complaint and the nature of your complaint and the overwhelming evidence that has not gone in your favour has decided that you now to be interviewed under the conduct code for bringing a frivolous case in bad faith. This course of action is incorporated within the B&H procedure probably to deter employees but in my experience is normally concluded without further action taken against the complainer.
Not knowing the exact details of your complaint you would have been better getting signed statements from your alleged witnesses who are now reneging before you proceeded with the complaint.
I am assuming that the names that you gave as witnesses in your B&H complaint were interviewed and you have seen their signed statements.
What could you expect from this recommendation if founded is the possibility of dismissal and hope that you do not have any active disciplinary awards on your record.
First objective would be to prove that your B&H complaint was given in good faith and an unblemished service record and length of service would be taken into consideration.
I am hoping that this B&H complaint is your first and you have not made previous B&H complaints against this manager which may be assumed that you have a vendetta with this manager.
You may need to research if this manger has been the subject of B&H complaints from other colleagues or grievances.
You should contact your area or local union rep on this matter before a date if given for your conduct meeting and request that the manger holding the conduct meeting is independent and not connected to your office.

[newtochat]

Unfortunately they're holding back the signed statments, even after i've requested them in writing about three times from HR, so i do not know if everyone was in fact interviewed, i only know of few names mentioned in the final report.
And yes he had so many complaints against him, and few ended resigning because of no action. the only evidence they have is (no evidence to prove incidents happend). My rep is envolved, but he said i can not appeal the concluded case.I guess they want to set me as example to put staff of complaning, but i feel let down by colleagues, and the big question is how can i prove b&h if witnesses would not back me up. Are posties so scared of managers ????
Thanks

[rehabron]

Unfortunately they're holding back the signed statments, even after i've requested them in writing about three times from HR, so i do not know if everyone was in fact interviewed, i only know of few names mentioned in the final report.
And yes he had so many complaints against him, and few ended resigning because of no action. the only evidence they have is (no evidence to prove incidents happend). My rep is envolved, but he said i can not appeal the concluded case.I guess they want to set me as example to put staff of complaning, but i feel let down by colleagues, and the big question is how can i prove b&h if witnesses would not back me up. Are posties so scared of managers ????
Thanks

Your original posting mentioned should be interviewed under the conduct code so it may not be definite that the conduct code is to progress and now a matter of time for you waiting to receive correspondence to be notified if this has been transferred to this procedure. It may be a ploy to keep you on tender hooks as a form of retribution for the action that you took.
If it does go to conduct code then you will have to be copied in to all relevant documentation that is going to be used against you.
I think it is just a waiting game now.

[newtochat]

I find it hard to accept, turned from victim into perpetrator, the funny part of it is ( take b&H seriously) unbelivable...
I wish the union had more power on this, i think union reps should get involved in the investigations to insure fairness, and to reassure witnesses.
Thanks for you input.

[spiderj]

As long as you can show you had no bad intent you'll be fine.

Don't react when they try to push your buttons.

Take a decent witness in with you

And if the notes you get sent differ from what was said
Don't sign,just return with amendments circled.

Sometimes you've got to take a stand and its lonely up there
But its that or live on your knees.

[Lincox]

The moral to this story is that if you are going to put in a case like this, that you ask your witnesses to sign statements before you submit the claim. It would be very difficult for them to change their minds under interrogation. If they are not willing to sign statements then it is very likely that they will not support you when push comes to shove.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Its also common sense, unless you are in the room when they are being interviewed by the Managers, how do you know, for certain that what they said, is actually what the managers reported. Or indeed that the report drawn up after the fact was accurate and unbiased. Even then, as Lincox suggests they may say one thing to you and something different when they are under pressure.

[newtochat]

I learn that the hard way i guess, maybe i should trust no one in future, wow.... The remaing question is how do i report and fight b&h on my own ?

[spiderj]

There is no easy answer to that mate.
Every battle is different.

I've won one grievance but chose to not go that way this time.

Best advice is call union b n h dept.
Call HELP on payslip.
And check out bullying helplines and the law on this.

Its an absolute minefield but its doable.

[newtochat]

Now they're considering dismissal, and i have to prove that i wasn't making complaint in bad faith, yet thy're holding back the evidence, they have not provide me with signed statements, they're asking me to rely on the managers report only. Is that the procedure really ? why are they holding the witness statments back ?
Why should i trust their report. Any experienced REP out there ? what's the procedure ???

[Lincox]

If you have household insurance with legal expenses cover, you should call them and ask for their advice with possible representation if RM do dismiss you. If you are in the union there is I believe also legal help available with an advice line. Use all of these avenues and do not accept that Royal Mail can fire you without giving them a fight for your future.

[newtochat]

Oh i am willing to fight that's for sure, if it gets there, then they will have to disclose the evidence they'r using, my rep is involved but he can not say why they'r holding back statments from me, they'r not allowing outside representation ie solicitor...etc. Surely if they have nothing to hide, then i should see the witness signed statments no ?

[spiderj]

If it goes to tribunal you'll see the statements.
Mate if ure in the union call union line

[newtochat]

Will do, cheers