Holiday pay overtime

[simonrmay]

Can anyone tell me if the recent legislation will effect us posties who have worked overtime for many years. Will we get a backdated lump sum?

[claretandblue]

no, no backdating.

[teamtalk]

Not sure why it won't be backdated.
As far as I can make out it will need to be backdated to the late nineties 97/98.

It can still be challenged by employers, but it seems water tight that companies including RM will need to pay out.

No one off lump sums either.
I can see it being another while before we see anything.

[lew1275]

Does this mean we can't go about doing anything about claiming back overtime owed to us? Will it be done automatically or does each employee have to put forward their case?

[dvbuk55]

I think it's the government who are appealing the ruling knowing how much it would cost businesses. In truth I do think it's a bit unfair if it was backdated small companies would definitely feel the pinch. If it was to be instituted from say 1 January next year then a business would be able to judge whether or not overtime would be worked or additional staff employed to cover staffing shortfalls and that is fair.

[chrisj]

Agreed!

But before people start trying to convert overtime hours into extra holiday pay. This will only affect part-timers who regularly average more than their contractual hours through overtime.

Entitlements will only be to a certain maximum number of hours - that is, full time contractual hours or whatever is used in any particular industry.

But but, how will the average be worked out? Will it be based on previous years or a continuos averaging of the cumulative hours? In such a case, taking holidays much later in the year might benefit some part-timers...

[dvbuk55]

Agreed!

But before people start trying to convert overtime hours into extra holiday pay. This will only after part-timers who regularly average more than their contractual hours through overtime.

Entitlements will only be to a certain maximum number of hours - that is, full time contractual hours or whatever is used in any particular industry.

But but, how will the average be worked out. Will it be based on previous years or a continuos averaging of the cumulative hours? In such a case, taking holidays much later in the year might benefit some part-timers...

TBH Chris, I've no idea how they would calculate the monies due for each individual over a protracted period of time. It might just be that they would offer a single payment or two payments over this and next year how they would decide who gets it of course is another ponderable I hope people aren't looking at this decision as a banker.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

I expect many 20-odd hour contract OPGs would be looking at £100+ per year worked as payouts before tax.

[Martin Walsh]

The intial advice from the CWU lawyers is that this case does not help us as it's concerning contractual overtime and we already have that in the ways of SA being paid whilst on leave.

There are other tribunal cases including the ones the CWU have iniated which will have far more impact including part timers working above their contracted hours.

[chrisj]

For starters the Christmas bonus should be based on the average hours worked not the ridiculous and discriminatory pro-rata basis.

That should not be that hard a case for the CWU to achieve.

'Compulsory' overtime within RM is always going to be hard to decide but agreed overtime over a long period of time is just about the same without the element of compulsion. People doing temporary cover without the paper-work or contract should also be recognised as doing some sort of agreed overtime - not SA.

[aiden01]

For starters the Christmas bonus should be based on the average hours worked not the ridiculous and discriminatory pro-rata basis.

That should not be that hard a case for the CWU to achieve.

'Compulsory' overtime within RM is always going to be hard to decide but agreed overtime over a long period of time is just about the same without the element of compulsion. People doing temporary cover without the paper-work or contract should also be recognised as doing some sort of agreed overtime - not SA.

how do you agree ot over a long period of time its usually done on a daily basis

[chrisj]

This might be peculiar to delivery. In some cases, a part-timer might find himself or herself covering for long-term absence or even long-term vacancy working at hours greater than the contractual hour; and this arrangement being relied upon by management.

We also have people working in the locker offices (in ours) who are employed as a part-timers but over the years have been regularly working way beyond full time hours; and most importantly the managers have come to rely on them to come in week in week out doing longer hours.

Since we started shared van and park and loop; we have had many instances where a part-timer quickly assumes the role of his full time partner that is on long term sick or even short term. Some of the sickness could last weeks or months. The manager might feel that the part timer already knows the 2 rounds; could easily double-prep and there is some sort of continuity.

This arrangement and other is even more prevalent now that a lot of delivery offices are deliberately understaffed; so the office is run on overtime - and in delivery, it is not SA.

SA tends to apply to Collections and Christmas or even Caller offices (ironically).

[aiden01]

surely the cwu rep can argue for more pt staff to be made ft then

[dvbuk55]

surely the cwu rep can argue for more pt staff to be made ft then

He can certainly argue for it, he can even go in to a disagreement over staffing and recruitment but he isn't going to get it. Even when full timers leave they are replaced, if at all, with a part timer. Consequently the original hours agreed for manning a delivery office is constantly eroded, God knows how many hours have been lost over the last 5 years..

[chrisj]

There is a thread here about some offices being understaffed.

A lot of Reps and even DOMs have very little power in smaller Delivery Offices... Even the DOM are being overruled on decisions like staffing.

Just add a couple on long term sick to the equation in a smaller office and then the office is run on OT... And/or even borrowing from other offices.

We had a DIM come in and tell us that there is actually an embargo on employing more staff. Since then we have been at least 4 members of staff short, we have had FT post changed to 32 hours and 32 hours to 27 hours - and this is after Revision. A postie left and his duty was immediately lapsed and we have had buy down as well.

We do not have a Rep but even the Area rep cannot make folks on temporary FT contracts to be proper full time after 1 year or more service.

We have at least four 27 hours staff working about 50 hours a week (including collections) and some even work their holidays (a bit greedy but who are my to judge). We are understaffed and a lot of folks do not care for extra delivery OT or coming on their days off or coming in at the crack of dawn to do extra IPS or double prep. So it is down the the Pters that really need the money...

* The sad thing is that overtime payment is actually going down and more work is being done for less money. 4 hours for a full round these days instead of 6 hours; sometimes a row takes more than 1 hour but the poor pters still do the work.

A number of the part timers in my office got the full whack of shares because of the hours they have worked at the time.