working to your hours for part time staff

[mattymann]

Hi

I just wanted to get the general consensus of what people thought about working to your actual hours?
Basically, in a work time learning session this weekor "telly time"as
I like to call it, the part timers were told that on a Monday and Tuesday
We would have our 1 hour (7 til 8) taken from us to cut over time spending in our d.o. Now, I come in at 5:30 every morning and sort my own walk and then even help out on the sorting of mail our packets, at no cost to royal mail, and then get the hour from 7-8..... But now they want to take that from us on the lighter days, my view is that they can keep the hours on the heavy days as well and I'll do my contracted hours of 8 til 12:30 everyday of the week! But obviously that will mean having to bring back mail, which I'm told by management would be classed as withholding the queens mail.... Outs this true and what would you guys and gals do in this position??

[toastie]

do I understand that you come in every morning and do 5.30 till 7.00am for no payment?

[flaminmoses]

do I understand that you come in every morning and do 5.30 till 7.00am for no payment?

think this chap needs a right bollocking as its things like this that are destroying us

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Hi

Welcome

I just wanted to get the general consensus of what people thought about working to your actual hours?

Its a good idea, one the Union have always backed.

Basically, in a work time learning session this weekor "telly time"as
I like to call it, the part timers were told that on a Monday and Tuesday
We would have our 1 hour (7 til 8) taken from us to cut over time spending in our d.o.

Thats common practice at this time of year. RM believe there is always a lull during the summer period.

Now, I come in at 5:30 every morning and sort my own walk and then even help out on the sorting of mail our packets, at no cost to royal mail, and then get the hour from 7-8.....

Don't do it unless they are willing to pay you.

But now they want to take that from us on the lighter days, my view is that they can keep the hours on the heavy days as well and I'll do my contracted hours of 8 til 12:30 everyday of the week!

Good - to be blunt they have been taking you for a mug till now. You have to make the decision to prove them wrong.

But obviously that will mean having to bring back mail, which I'm told by management would be classed as withholding the queens mail....

Technically correct, but its only half the story.

Outs this true and what would you guys and gals do in this position??

If you haven't advised the manager you are unable to complete the delivery within your hours, and bring back the mail on your own decision then dismissal is likely. (this is the section of the overrunning deliveries brief than mentions all mail taken out would be expected to be delivered)

However, what they haven't mentioned is that Overtime is voluntary and you cannot be forced to work over your hours even if they pay you, and you certainly can't be forced if they refuse payment.

So Yes work your hours and when you can't complete within your hours tell your manager immediately, even if you are willing to get paid overtime to do it.

Your manager must then review the situation and come up with a plan. If you still think their plan means you won't complete then advise them as such, and arrange contact before your finish time.

Even if you think you will complete in time and go out on delivery and something happens which means you will go over then you MUST contact the manager and advise them of the situation. If you don't get permission to work overtime they may refuse payment.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Also pop into this thread download the document in the first post and gen up on the procedure.

OVERRUNNING DELIVERIES OPG NOTIFICATION PROCEDURE

PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT
Where an employee feels that on completion of preparation he/she may experience difficulty in completing his/her delivery within the authorised time allotted, he/she should approach his/her manager as soon as possible before setting out on delivery. It will be for the manager to discuss any problem and advise the employee what particular action should be taken.

AFTER COMMENCEMENT OF DELIVERY
If an individual is prevented from completing their delivery for any reason, it is essential that this is reported immediately either by returning to the office or by telephone (telephone costs will be refunded). A written record will be kept. All employees should be informed of the local authorised arrangements, in writing, preferably in plastic card form if available.

[bogstandard]

the point being as soon as you become aware of a problem to complete you return to the office and make them aware of the problem. This is my policy, they hate it as i have complied with policy. It is now no longer your problem it is a managers problem.
If you phone up they will only tell you to stay out and do what you can, so balls to em.
As i'm going to work to my time and then go home, 'll do it sat in a van returning to my office then wait for them to make a decision and then going back out
If i am willing to stop on i've just created a little extra.

[mattymann]

Thanks for your reply! Much appreciated!
so is it only when you take it out and bring it back that there
is a problem?
our rep is useless to be honest, the only thing he's ever done is get his own walk timed and got his merge taken off his walk and he doesn't have
to go on the sorting and because he doesnt drive someone has to do his oversize pkts too! Everyone in the office can do his walk in 2:30hrs no problem!
even with oversize, he's never done anything for anyone else in the office, I overheard him laughing that part time staff won't be coming back early anymore, even though we do infinately more than he does! It's affecting moral, especially with no one on our side

[TrueBlueTerrier]

so is it only when you take it out and bring it back that there
is a problem?

Only if you have not followed procedure. You can bring mail back as long as you have followed the agreement and management know beforehand. In fact where possible actually hand it to management who should be expecting it if you have followed the procedure.

[mattymann]

do I understand that you come in every morning and do 5.30 till 7.00am for no payment?

think this chap needs a right bollocking as its things like this that are destroying us

I think saying im destroying you is a tad melodramatic don't you think? I only do that as Many a time im swapped from walk to walk at a moments notice even if I've thrown the mech in! And they still expect the door to doors to be done and prepped etc etc, so im not ruining your life here just trying to get ahead, as I prefer having my afternoon free rather than my morning when I wouldnt be doing anything anyway, but that looks like it's about to change

[mattymann]

so is it only when you take it out and bring it back that there
is a problem?

Only if you have not followed procedure. You can bring mail back as long as you have followed the agreement and management know beforehand. In fact where possible actually hand it to management who should be expecting it if you have followed the procedure.

Cheers trueblue

[TrueBlueTerrier]

do I understand that you come in every morning and do 5.30 till 7.00am for no payment?

think this chap needs a right bollocking as its things like this that are destroying us

I think saying im destroying you is a tad melodramatic don't you think? I only do that as Many a time im swapped from walk to walk at a moments notice even if I've thrown the mech in! And they still expect the door to doors to be done and prepped etc etc, so im not ruining your life here just trying to get ahead, as I prefer having my afternoon free rather than my morning when I wouldnt be doing anything anyway, but that looks like it's about to change

Your not destroying them, but you are damaging your own chances of getting extra hours on a permanent basis.

What happens is that Royal Mail measure only paid hours for budgets, therefore anyone working for free (coming in early, not taking breaks, etc) means that Royal Mail can say X amount of hours were used to get Z amount of traffic prepped and delivered and therefor Y amount of hours can be taken out of the plan/budget.

Unfortunately, whilst short term you are right, it relieves the stress around getting the job done for you. Unfortunately in the long term it adds more pressure on everyone as Royal Mail will use the previous figures to cut jobs and hours when we know, but they ignore, that X hours +(unpaid but worked time) were used to deliver Z Traffic (sometimes underestimated) of traffic and that would mean more hours should have been put in.

[chrisj]

do I understand that you come in every morning and do 5.30 till 7.00am for no payment?

think this chap needs a right bollocking as its things like this that are destroying us

so im not ruining your life here just trying to get ahead, as I prefer having my afternoon free rather than my morning when I wouldnt be doing anything anyway, but that looks like it's about to change

That is the same kind of attitude that is pervasive amongst a lot of posties.

You are contracted to do certain hours and you should do those hours not try and turn the job into a flex-time job. It is not job and finish anymore.

I really wonder how many other jobs do people just give so much of the time for free just because they do not want to lie in bed in the morning or they just want the afternoon free - free for what?

Destroying might be a strong word but such selfishness is certainly not helping. I bet if many of these postmen go and work at Mail Centres or Mdec or any other council or govt job; they will not even turn up until 5 minutes before start time.

[mattymann]

do I understand that you come in every morning and do 5.30 till 7.00am for no payment?

think this chap needs a right bollocking as its things like this that are destroying us

I think saying im destroying you is a tad melodramatic don't you think? I only do that as Many a time im swapped from walk to walk at a moments notice even if I've thrown the mech in! And they still expect the door to doors to be done and prepped etc etc, so im not ruining your life here just trying to get ahead, as I prefer having my afternoon free rather than my morning when I wouldnt be doing anything anyway, but that looks like it's about to change

Your not destroying them, but you are damaging your own chances of getting extra hours on a permanent basis.

What happens is that Royal Mail measure only paid hours for budgets, therefore anyone working for free (coming in early, not taking breaks, etc) means that Royal Mail can say X amount of hours were used to get Z amount of traffic prepped and delivered and therefor Y amount of hours can be taken out of the plan/budget.

Unfortunately, whilst short term you are right, it relieves the stress around getting the job done for you. Unfortunately in the long term it adds more pressure on everyone as Royal Mail will use the previous figures to cut jobs and hours when we know, but they ignore, that X hours +(unpaid but worked time) were used to deliver Z Traffic (sometimes underestimated) of traffic and that would mean more hours should have been put in.

Point taken.....in this job there is very little in the way of guidance, so I've basically had to learn from my mistakes along the way, I'll probably end up being the bad guy in all of this but ultimately they seem like it's ok to receive but not to give.
Cheers people for all suggestions and critiques

[steven100]

Also pop into this thread download the document in the first post and gen up on the procedure.

OVERRUNNING DELIVERIES OPG NOTIFICATION PROCEDURE

PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT
Where an employee feels that on completion of preparation he/she may experience difficulty in completing his/her delivery within the authorised time allotted, he/she should approach his/her manager as soon as possible before setting out on delivery. It will be for the manager to discuss any problem and advise the employee what particular action should be taken.

AFTER COMMENCEMENT OF DELIVERY
If an individual is prevented from completing their delivery for any reason, it is essential that this is reported immediately either by returning to the office or by telephone (telephone costs will be refunded). A written record will be kept. All employees should be informed of the local authorised arrangements, in writing, preferably in plastic card form if available.

But who is to blame if a agreement is made for the postman to call after being told to phone if unable to complete. And the postman has phoned as agreed to get no answer. And the mail gets returned.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Also pop into this thread download the document in the first post and gen up on the procedure.

OVERRUNNING DELIVERIES OPG NOTIFICATION PROCEDURE

PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT
Where an employee feels that on completion of preparation he/she may experience difficulty in completing his/her delivery within the authorised time allotted, he/she should approach his/her manager as soon as possible before setting out on delivery. It will be for the manager to discuss any problem and advise the employee what particular action should be taken.

AFTER COMMENCEMENT OF DELIVERY
If an individual is prevented from completing their delivery for any reason, it is essential that this is reported immediately either by returning to the office or by telephone (telephone costs will be refunded). A written record will be kept. All employees should be informed of the local authorised arrangements, in writing, preferably in plastic card form if available.

But who is to blame if an agreement is made for the postman to call after being told to phone if unable to complete. And the postman has phoned as agreed to get no answer. And the mail gets returned.

Thats why having a witness is always recommended - and as to proving you rang then thats one of the very few good reasons to use your own mobile - it will show in your calls log when and what numbers you tried to call. They would probably suspend you but would find it hard to dismiss or punish you.

As with most things there is no guarantee or certainty that you will be safe from suspension or dismissal even if you follow the rules, but in the end its an individual decision to either stand up for yourself and run the risk of being a target, or to remain on your knees and continue to be ...................