suspended for accident i didnt know about

[pierre76]

hi anyone reading.
last week i was placed on precautionary suspension because of an accident i had no idea i had caused. apparently the day before i had been witnessed side swiping a car
whilst driving a large high top van (even though i've had no formal training on those vans). the van i was driving is an absolute shed, the whole thing lurches when you change gear. the first thing i knew about the incident was next day when my van share partner asked me if i knew of the accident as he lives in the area and had been approached by the owner asking him about the incident.
later after i had finished my duty the dom called me into his office to discuss the incident but i had to pick up my daughter, he told me to get her and return if possible so i duly collected her and returned to the office.
the dom then directed us to an office and offered me the opportunity for someone to accompany me but by that time the office was empty apart from the locker man and the union rep had refused to wait about till i finished.
so i returned with my daughter he (the dom) then proceeded to interview me, a fact finding as he called it. he showed me pictures of the damage to the car and told me what a witness had said. apparently a van had flashed to let me through thru a gap and i had swiped the car as i did so. i honestly cannot recall hitting anything, i've played it by the book all the time i've worked at rm, reporting hazards etc. and i've watched enough episodes of police camera action to know to stop if you hit anything. i've also seen the repercussions when people do not follow procedure...what do not understand is the dom doesn't believe me, why would i drive away if i knew? i've seen people at the office report accidents, accidents happen. i would have stopped and tried to find owner of car (or put a note under wipers) and phoned office straight away and filled in an accident form when i got back.
another point that is puzzling me is the fact that about 10-15 mins later i was back at the place delivering a tracked parcel. i must've parked within 15 yards of car and no-one came out and said anything.
if anyone has experienced anything similar i would like to hear from you, i'm at my wits end, i can't sleep, can't eat, haven't left my house. my head is a mess and i'm scared of what could happen, i have kids to think about and, as daft as it sounds, i quite like my job and i'm been made to look like a liar...the whole situation is making me ill, i just don't know what to do...
ps, i am a member of of union and have been in touch with a cwu representative recommended to me.

[demon]

tell him to check your tracker in the van as they are meant to now everything if not yust say you didnt hit nowt let them prove it

[clashcityrocker]

Was there/is there any damage to your van?

[POSTMAN]

Get the rep that is helping you to find out whether you've had a change over,play dumb about not having one as well.
Your manager is in the s**t for letting you go out untrainedl,will be intererting how far they would want to push this.

[pierre76]

cheers for swift answers
first off, demon, I don't reckon there is a tracker in the van, the thing is a shed. I'm not disputing I did it, there are witnesses describing me and I was the only driver down that street at that time. What I'm disputing is the fact I didn't know. The street is narrow and always double parked and I was flashed through by another van. That means I must've come to a stop when both of us met going in opposite directions so I would have pushed it into first to get going thru the gap when flashed and the van jolts like feck when you change gear so if I did hit summat when changing gear I didn't notice cos of the jolting( the other senior bloke who was driving as well did nothing but moan about the gearbox), plus the radio was on...
ClashCityRocker, yeah, there is a bit of a streak of silver paint on the van, the van is covered in dents, scratches and scrapes, just below the silver paint is a hell of dent (on the sliding door) from a previous bump. Damage to car is far worse (which you would expect when a 3.5 ton van swipes it), the offside wing is totalled, but it is a new audi and there would be a crumple zone designed to well, er, crumple...
POSTMAN, I've had changeover training but only on a small van, we should have been in one of the new small van assigned to that duty but cos the planners (did I mention we are currently going thru the revision) have made a balls up pairing the 2 biggest rounds in the office together we had a casual come with us so we could stand a chance at finishing the duty so they give us a big van to accommodate us. I forgot to mention that I'm a floater and that was the first time I've done that round since the revision.
I'm annoyed that they waited till I finished my round the next day (i was on the same duty but there was only 2 of us so half of one round was taken off us for a temp to do on his own and we went out in the van assigned for those duties) and I had to rush to pick up my little girl then return to work with her and she was in the room whilst I was being interviewed, she heard everything and asked me all about it and told everyone...Saying that, I don't blame the manager, he's a top bloke making the best of a bad job but I can't help but think he'll hang me out to dry to save his ass though...He actually said to me he thought I was lying and knew I'd done it...I just cannot seem to get it through to them that if I'd known I would have followed the correct procedure, why would I drive off? its not like i was driving uninsured or the like...I know I could have just reported it, and once the i's were dotted and t's crossed on the accident form that would have been the end of it. Why would I drive off from the scene of an accident? I'm not thick...Like I did when I cut my head open, reported it filled out relevant form etc. av kept walk logs upto date, I've played by the book all the time...
And the fact that I was back there ten ish minutes later, no-one came out and questioned me but they saw me when I did it...
I'm brickin it, I can't afford to lose this job, not now. I got kids and it is them who will suffer...
I dunno what to do...any more advice is gratefully accepted

[hantsman]

cheers for swift answers
first off, demon, I don't reckon there is a tracker in the van, the thing is a shed. I'm not disputing I did it, there are witnesses describing me and I was the only driver down that street at that time. What I'm disputing is the fact I didn't know. The street is narrow and always double parked and I was flashed through by another van. That means I must've come to a stop when both of us met going in opposite directions so I would have pushed it into first to get going thru the gap when flashed and the van jolts like feck when you change gear so if I did hit summat when changing gear I didn't notice cos of the jolting( the other senior bloke who was driving as well did nothing but moan about the gearbox), plus the radio was on...
ClashCityRocker, yeah, there is a bit of a streak of silver paint on the van, the van is covered in dents, scratches and scrapes, just below the silver paint is a hell of dent (on the sliding door) from a previous bump. Damage to car is far worse (which you would expect when a 3.5 ton van swipes it), the offside wing is totalled, but it is a new audi and there would be a crumple zone designed to well, er, crumple...
POSTMAN, I've had changeover training but only on a small van, we should have been in one of the new small van assigned to that duty but cos the planners (did I mention we are currently going thru the revision) have made a balls up pairing the 2 biggest rounds in the office together we had a casual come with us so we could stand a chance at finishing the duty so they give us a big van to accommodate us. I forgot to mention that I'm a floater and that was the first time I've done that round since the revision.
I'm annoyed that they waited till I finished my round the next day (i was on the same duty but there was only 2 of us so half of one round was taken off us for a temp to do on his own and we went out in the van assigned for those duties) and I had to rush to pick up my little girl then return to work with her and she was in the room whilst I was being interviewed, she heard everything and asked me all about it and told everyone...Saying that, I don't blame the manager, he's a top bloke making the best of a bad job but I can't help but think he'll hang me out to dry to save his ass though...He actually said to me he thought I was lying and knew I'd done it...I just cannot seem to get it through to them that if I'd known I would have followed the correct procedure, why would I drive off? its not like i was driving uninsured or the like...I know I could have just reported it, and once the i's were dotted and t's crossed on the accident form that would have been the end of it. Why would I drive off from the scene of an accident? I'm not thick...Like I did when I cut my head open, reported it filled out relevant form etc. av kept walk logs upto date, I've played by the book all the time...
And the fact that I was back there ten ish minutes later, no-one came out and questioned me but they saw me when I did it...
I'm brickin it, I can't afford to lose this job, not now. I got kids and it is them who will suffer...
I dunno what to do...any more advice is gratefully accepted

1 Did you drive with your little girl in the RM van?

2 Have you got a full driving licence?

3 Did you hit anything while you were driving?

4 Did you report your accident to the police and RM?

[fishtank]

Holding a meeting with your daughter present was very unprofessional.
Not giving you any notice before your meeting was unacceptable.
Not allowing you access to a union representative was unacceptable.
The use of a mechanistic conduct code approach to a road traffic accident is inappropriate.
Precautionary suspension is completely unnecessary and heavy handed.

You might also want to read this..

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 41#p504985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PhilthyPhil]

I take it neither of the other two guys you were working with were in the van at the time? You should only be driving the size of van which you have had training on or smaller. Which is why the training is normally done in the largest van the office has. I would suggest getting statements from other drivers of that van to backup your claim of the lurching gear changes if you think that is the reason you did not feel the impact. I would certainly question whether your manager really is a 'top bloke' if he has accused you outright of being a liar and then suspended you. The waiting to suspend you until you get back off delivery thing is common though, saves the lazy managers having to get it covered.

[pierre76]

hantsman, no my little one wasnt in van, thats against rules and i stick to them. i got full licence since 93. yeah i hit something when driving (but wasn't aware). i didnt report it till i next day was i was made aware of incident. i didnt know it had happened, thats the point i keep trying to get across...

[pierre76]

I take it neither of the other two guys you were working with were in the van at the time? You should only be driving the size of van which you have had training on or smaller. Which is why the training is normally done in the largest van the office has. I would suggest getting statements from other drivers of that van to backup your claim of the lurching gear changes if you think that is the reason you did not feel the impact. I would certainly question whether your manager really is a 'top bloke' if he has accused you outright of being a liar and then suspended you. The waiting to suspend you until you get back off delivery thing is common though, saves the lazy managers having to get it covered.

Yeah, I was alone in van at time. I was only trained in a small vauxhall combo van (even though at the time I was trained the large vans were available 'cos it was late afternoon when I did changeover training and they were not in use). I'll get a statement from the other driver about the gearbox. In my opinion the van shouldnt be on the road, how it got thru its last MOT I'll never know, do RM have their own garage able to issue MOT's?
Manager is a good bloke, he's been good to me in past. I guess his hands are tied with RM's procedures...Its did piss me off when he said he thought I knew. He knows I'm not thick, don't understand why he'd think I'd drive off and think I'd get away with it. Christ, you only have to post a letter thru wrong door by accident and public are straight on phone complaining, why the hell would I think I'd get away with side-swiping a massive hi-top into a car in a densely populated area without someone seeing it..?
As for waiting till I got back from my round before saying anything, thats pi55ed me too 'cos I told him first thing in the morning when I was made aware by the bloke I was out with...why did he not have me fill in accident form then?

[pierre76]

Holding a meeting with your daughter present was very unprofessional.
Not giving you any notice before your meeting was unacceptable.
Not allowing you access to a union representative was unacceptable.
The use of a mechanistic conduct code approach to a road traffic accident is inappropriate.
Precautionary suspension is completely unnecessary and heavy handed.

You might also want to read this..

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 41#p504985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers for info, I agree with what you say, especially my daughter being there was unacceptable, I only agreed 'cos I thought he was just gonna ask me my opinions on the incident. Thats caused no end of hassle cos she heard everything and has told anyone who will listen... just one question, what is a mechanistic conduct code? I'm an educated bloke but I'm lost on that one...
I'm at my wits end, I've not eaten (i've lost half a stone in last few days), not slept, am becoming increasingly ratty to those I love, I've only left house twice. I'm scared. And all because of something I didn't immediately know about. As I've said before if I had known, I would have stopped and followed procedure for such an incident...why wouldn't I? Apart from filling a few forms in that would have been the end of it...

[pierre76]

Just an update for anyone who might be following this saga...
I have been invited to another 'fact finding' interview.
Does anyone have any advice as to what I might be able to say in my defence?
All and any advice gratefully received, I'm falling to bits here. I'm a nervous wreck, can't understand why anyone would think think I'd willfully drive away

[crazyshrew]

Just an update for anyone who might be following this saga...
I have been invited to another 'fact finding' interview.
Does anyone have any advice as to what I might be able to say in my defence?
All and any advice gratefully received, I'm falling to bits here. I'm a nervous wreck, can't understand why anyone would think think I'd willfully drive away

I'm no expert but make sure you get a witness you can rely on in with you - preferably your Rep, or maybe someone who knows how crap the van is.

[fishtank]

Does anyone have any advice as to what I might be able to say in my defence?

Just be honest.
Stick to the facts.
Don't try to over-think,over-complicate,over-elaborate or be a smartarse.
You aren't denying that you hit the vehicle,you were just unaware that you had.
Make sure your rep is present,if possible your Area Rep and make sure they are fully aware of the circumstances surrounding your suspension..
Don't panic.

[tetley smooth]

Be careful when you start calling vehicle a shed and putting the vehicles faults forward as some kind of mitigating circumstance. You will definately be informed by manager of your responsibility and the time built into your duty to check for faults.
If you became aware of the problem while out and thought it unsafe you could have requested mechanic.
If problem has been ongoing has it been it reported in vehicle log and if yes why has problem not been rectified.
If problem is not logged in book and you and others are driving it knowing of the problem, then you and your colleagues could be in for another interview.