Can Branch stop my nomination?

[MinisterofCucumber]

I would like to stand as a candidate for Area Rep.

I have a proposer and a seconder. Are the Branch allowed to stop me standing?

The Branch's emmissary has informed me that the Branch is only allowed to nominate one candidate. He tells me that a meeting will be held and if I can bring along more voters than my rival, I will get the nomination.

This sounds like bollocks to me.

Why should a branch be allowed to only nominate one candidate?

Why should Branch members who will not have a vote in the Area rep elections be allowed to have a vote on who gets nominated to stand in the election?

If only the voters elegible to vote in the Area Rep election can vote on who gets nominated, why have two elections?

The Area rep election will be a postal ballot but the proposed nomination election has none of the safeguards of the official election.

Why will the only Branch members allowed to vote in the nomination election be the ones who can turn up to the meeting?

The Branch is behaving like the ruling party in a one-party state.

[drb]

Get a copy of your "Branch Model Rules" from the Branch Chairman

[Militantdave]

would not suprise me if it was true...thats real democracy in a union....hang on let me watch orson wells animal farm again

[Martin Walsh]

A couple of questions minster 1. Does the area reps position cover more than one CWU Branch ? many do !. If it does many Branch's do have in their model branch rules that the Branch will only put one candidate forward and many Branch's vote at Branch AGMs to decide this. In fact most BT Branch's do not have a membership vote for election but are elected by whoever turns up at the AGM?

Now in turns of who votes for you , well when your an area rep of a branch you do not only represent the members in your area of expertise but often you are on the central committee of the Branch and represent and decide issues which effect the wider membership of the Branch.

Now I can understand if your area reps position covers more than one Branch that they only want one candidate from the Branch as other Branch's will have one but it should be covered in the Branch rules and I can also understand that the decision is done at the AGM as you are not only as an area rep representing the members in your section.

However if your area reps role only covers your branch I think therefore it is wrong.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Can anyone explain why we need Branches?

What do Branches do?

At Branch committee meetings representatives talk to the other committee members about IR issues. Some Branch committee members are IR reps that represent different sets of people and some Branch committee members have no IR position. If the point of these meetings is to give the rep access to expertise, the expertise is only as good as the best 'expert' in the Branch Committee. A rep who wants to serve the members he/she represents would search out the best advice and information available. Why go to the trouble of attending Branch committee meetings if there is better expertise available elsewhere?

A rep should be discussing IR issues that affect members the rep represents with those affected members. I know of reps that discuss IR issues with their Branch committee but don't discuss these issues with the members that are affected by them. That shouldn't be what a union is about.

Apart from providing a resource of IR 'expertise', what else does a Branch committee do?

There are only a few admin tasks that need doing like signing for reps to go on courses. The Branch Secretary can do these on his/her own. No Branch is going to refuse a rep training so there is no need for committee members to decide whether a rep should go on a course.

Dingo makes the point that an Area Rep automatically becomes a Branch official by automatically becoming a member of the "central committee". He uses this as an argument to justify the position being filled at the AGM. However, a Branch official does not automatically become an IR rep, it is the other way round. A LTB last year stated that special meetings should be convened for Branches to put forward their nominations for Area Reps.

Dingo accepts that if an IR role covers more than one Branch, then each Branch should only be allowed to put forward one nomination. Why, because 'rules is rules'?

What is the problem with having more candidates in the election?

[MinisterofCucumber]

Why does this thread not appear in the "view active topics" list?

It has had more activity than some of the other threads in the "view active topics" list.

How does a thread become an "active topic"?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Why does this thread not appear in the "view active topics" list?

It has had more activity than some of the other threads in the "view active topics" list.

How does a thread become an "active topic"?

I think there is a bug in the background software - on my Active Topics its only listing Angard ones.

[POSTMAN]

Why does this thread not appear in the "view active topics" list?

It has had more activity than some of the other threads in the "view active topics" list.

How does a thread become an "active topic"?

I think there is a bug in the background software - on my Active Topics its only listing Angard ones.

Have never used it,I use the view new posts thing,I don't even know what it is lol,but just noticed yes it's only the Angardies coming up,will look into it.

[POSTMAN]

Done,seems it shows the latest threads that have been posted in over the last 7 days.

[silly suffolk]

would not suprise me if it was true...thats real democracy in a union....hang on let me watch orson wells animal farm again

george orwell surely

[fishtank]

would not suprise me if it was true...thats real democracy in a union....hang on let me watch orson wells animal farm again

george orwell surely

No it was H.G. Wells
Orson Welles wrote 1984.
George Orwell wrote War Of The Worlds.
Mel Gibson directed and starred in Citizen Kane.

See...


Rosebud.

[Martin Walsh]

Minster you ask do we need branch`s and what do they do ?

Rule 6 of the CWU`s rule details the following.

The union shall be divided into branch`s.

The objective of each Branch shall be : to comply with the Branch model consituiton , organise locally , recurit and maximise membership levels, protect and promote the intrests of the members , keep members informed on local and national issues , implement the polices and directive of the NEC and its industrial executives.

Every member is assigned a branch depending on their workplace. Each branch must hold an AGM. Each Branch must elect at least 6 officers the Branch Secretary , Chair , Treasurer , Equality officer , politcal officer , Youth Officer. These officers must perform those tasks which are defined within the Branch consitituation. This would include legal and medical , membership records etc.

You make a point that I support only one candidate standing from a Branch , I did not say that but I did say you would have to look at what is in the Branch model rule. Equally I can understand if it is in the Branch model rules. The reason being there are loads of area reps postions which cover more than one branch some cover a number. Now most Branch`s want to give their candidate the best opportunity to get elected to that postion so if you have two people standing from the same branch and a single candidate standing from the other branch then the election would favour the single candidate from the branch. As no doubt you would both cancel out each others vote from the same branch.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Fair enough, Dingo.

But the question then becomes how should the pre-election be conducted?

It would not be right for members in the Branch who will not be represented by the Area Rep to have a vote in the pre-election because they will not have a vote in the actual election. Also, all of the members in the Branch who will be represented by the Area Rep should be allowed to vote in the pre-election. If the pre-election is to be as rigorous and valid as the election, a hustings and postal vote is the only fair option.

Remember, a Branch is not like a political party that candidates have the choice of joining. However, members and non-members alike are bound by collective bargaining. Maybe there should be a way that independent candidates could stand.

[Martin Walsh]

Sorry Minster the CWU is a voluntary organisation. If someone joins the CWU they are bound by the CWU Rule book and put into Branch's assigned by the NEC.

Your Branch has a set of model rules if you wish to change the Branch's rules to allow a different way of voting for candidates then you have to do by putting a rule change to your annual general meeting and get that supported by the majority of those present at the meeting.

Now the CWU is no longer a closed shop and therefore no one is forced to join , however Royal Mail recognise the CWU as the collective voice of the workplace so frankly I would give a non union member no say in any change as they have chosen to opt out of deciding what happens to their terms and conditions or their welfare when they decided not to join the CWU or leave it. They have no voice and they only get things because the union has achieved those things.

[MinisterofCucumber]

If my Branch held an AGM last year, they certainly didn't advertise it.

Joining the Union is voluntary but members have to abide the rules, even if the rules favour coups over elections.

If a Branch committee doesn't want to face an election, they can avoid advertising their AGM and hold it at a time and place that is inconvenient for the challengers or not hold it at all. Branch official elections take place on one day of the year that members may or may not be informed of. A member will only be allowed to vote in these elections if the member can make it to the meeting.

How is this fairer than one member, one vote?

The present Branch system heavily favours the incumbent Branch Committee because they decide the time and location of the AGM.

If a Branch decides that nomination elections should be held in the same way and Branch members are allowed to vote on who the Branch nominates even if these Branch members will not be eligible to vote in the election that the nomination is for, how is this fairer than one member, one vote (for the Branch members that will be eligible to vote in the election)?

If the Branch Committee decides that only the Branch Committee can decide what candidate the Branch nominates for an election, this contradicts Union criticism of the top-down authoritarian management style of Royal Mail Group.

You don't get much more authoritarian than a Branch Committee who will not allow ordinary Branch members to vote on what candidate to nominate to represent them but will allow members of the Branch Committee who won't be represented by the position to vote on who gets nominated.

When you join the CWU, they don't tell you that you are joining a club that is on a par democratically with the Afghan Taliban.