gross misconduct.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 06 Sep 2010, 15:15

can anyone advise what constitutes gross misconduct. two colleagues,(one being my brother) are both currently on suspension. my brother, a driver, was asked by his colleague to help him out after he had taken on too much overtime, and did so by doing part of his round for him, then giving him a lift on an errand which took them off route, and then back home. it was in the works van. apparently, they were seen off route, so they,ve both admitted it, stating they did not know it was wrong/or the seriousness of the offence. they have also been charged with unexcused delay of the mail. is it really that serious, i know of hundreds of people who have/still do these things. i know you can be dismissed for gross misconduct without a prior warning, but this seems very harsh to me. the possible outcome does not justify the crime.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 06 Sep 2010, 16:46

Going of route to do personal stuff in a RM van is technically 'stealing diesel'.It does not look good for them tbh.Especially in this day and age.

the possible outcome does not justify the crime.

The same for many cases mate.

Post by **Lounge Lizard** » 06 Sep 2010, 17:21

POSTMAN wrote:Going of route to do personal stuff in a RM van is technically 'stealing diesel'.It does not look good for them tbh.Especially in this day and age.
the possible outcome does not justify the crime.
The same for many cases mate.

Stealing diesel and stealing time.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 06 Sep 2010, 18:11

he worked 1 hour 15mins overtime, but knocked 30mins off for the errand, so there was no time stealing.

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 06 Sep 2010, 18:56

It is not good mate, and I'm afraid it will be pushed all the way.
They are in for a long hard time, They must clue up on the conduct code and hope in the eagerness for a dismissal mistakes are made.
Keep records of everything,keep a diary of everything, make sure senior reps are involved but don't rely on them entirely they have got to do their own homework on conduct code.
Give them your support someone to talk to so they don't feel so isolated or forgotten as they go through it.
Sincerley hope it is over quickly with good result but however sadly feel that's unlikely.

postietaz · Post by **postietaz** » 06 Sep 2010, 22:57

i remember the day when they tried crap like this the office would hit the gate

and it wasnt that long ago

seanocelt · Post by **seanocelt** » 06 Sep 2010, 23:07

postietaz wrote:i remember the day when they tried crap like this the office would hit the gate
and it wasnt that long ago

thats true you know. The union are terrified of it as its illegal but still the one tool that brings bullying and overzealous doms to the attention of senior management. However, few have the faith to take the risk now.

Post by **bobbyden** » 07 Sep 2010, 01:50

The 'errand' is the problem to overcome. It serves as a reminder that staff have to be extra careful. Basically, we are all walking on eggshells and the managers do not require a second invitation to make us all pay a severe penalty for any form of transgression.

I hope and pray your union rep is a shrewd operator because they will need to be. In the circumstances, a conduct code warning would be a fair result.

Post by **bobbyden** » 07 Sep 2010, 02:02

bobbyden wrote:The 'errand' is the problem to overcome. It serves as a reminder that staff have to be extra careful. Basically, we are all walking on eggshells and the managers do not require a second invitation to make us all pay a severe penalty for any form of transgression.

I hope and pray your union rep is a shrewd operator because they will need to be. In the circumstances, a conduct code warning would be a fair result.

One afterthought I have after reading this case tells me that dismissal is not the right decision to ultimately make. None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes and say and do things we have cause to regret. There is undoubtedly regret and therefore, the conduct code is the best option.

ninja · Post by **ninja** » 11 Sep 2010, 20:42

from your info it would seem that they had completed the delivery,prior to going off route. Therefore the charge of unexcused delay of the mail,wouldn't fit the charge, since you would say what mail and what delay.

More interestingly ask the manager for the official route plan for this duty,since they must be one if they are saying that they were off route.

The conduct code procedure is more about changing peoples behaviour and if this is there first time, then it should have been dealt with as a counselling session. It would be hard to push for such a severe charge based on the people saying that they were unaware that they had breached a rule at the time.

Also use the lack of training to mitigate there actions. Obviously if this process was so important then why wasn't they trained about it and a clever rep would write to the DOM saying that due to this case, they are unable to send any drivers out until they had training on this keeping to your route process.

One would think it is 1st april, but as previous posts suggest they want to reduce staff at all costs except through VR.

How do you fill your vans without going off route.

We do seem to have a strong focus on vans at the moment and in my office recently they tried to take a driver of driving whilst investigating a non-blameworthy accident, they did the investigation very fast,since we only spent two hours in the canteen.

La Poste · Post by **La Poste** » 11 Sep 2010, 21:07

Theft = Gross misconduct.
Theft of diesel.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 12 Sep 2010, 10:17

La Poste wrote:Theft = Gross misconduct.
Theft of diesel.

his line manager has gave him errands to do previously, which involve going off route, this being the case, then the line manager is sanctioning theft of diesel. you cuold argue,...well he,s the manager, he says it ok. but managers are supposed to lead by example. and the example he has set here, is, its ok to steal diesel.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 15 Sep 2010, 21:53

i,ve also learned just today, that a driver at a nearby office has been caught doing the same thing, going off route, and, he did it outside of work hours, in the works van. his dom has had him in, and has issued him with only a warning. as far as i,m concerned this sets a precedent for this case. the conduct code is a national agreement, not local.

La Poste · Post by **La Poste** » 16 Sep 2010, 20:43

Good, that may help you in the future.
Get as many details as you can about the incident.
If not used now it may well come in useful for your appeal.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 07 Oct 2010, 11:44

well, it turned out GREAT news in the end,(for my brother at least).....he got word last night from the union, his suspension is over and he is to return to work this friday. tomorrow in other words...me and all his mates and colleagues are absolutely delighted for him, its been 6 and a half weeks of sheer worry, sleepless nights, and stress for him. (me as well) the other lad involved in the case hasnt heard a word yet, not even a wisper, as to when his interview will be or nothing. having said that, it must surely be the same result as my brothers, as they were both charged with the same offence. so guys n galls, its nice to here some good news on here for a change, and get one over on the management. thanks to all the wellwishers

daveyeff

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