Help

[Bert66]

Hi Guys,

Ok my story: Sat after strike i was talking to my work mate when someone who broke strike walked by..as he went out of sight someone hissed..he then said "if that was you (saying my name) then you will go in the office".....well my workmate and i both went to his frame and said it wasn't me and that no one wanted to speak to him anyway..so he then said "well whoever it was then they will go in office"

that was that until Monday when i was on the floor making tea talking to a guy who's day off was on the strike...he asked me how picket line was...i said great..good support from public etc...i then said to him as i was turning round "you have got to stand up for your beliefs" when the same guy on Sat pushed me in shoulder and spilt tea on hand.

I then reported him to my line manager who took him in office to make statement...he then took me to make one..and then another 2 guys who one witnessed Sat and the other the push.

Well i was about to go on delivery when DOM asked to see me and the other guy...we were told a case to be answered and that we were to be split up to different offices, me one 13 miles away!

Anyway later that day i saw the guy and we both felt it was stupid that we were out of our offices so we wrote letters to DOM saying that his push was a ice breaker after strike (we were mates before) and i overeacted due to tea on hand and he confirmed that i could not of hissed as i was talking to other guy and he took my comment about beliefs out of context and overeacted....so we cleared each other of anything....

Well a week later i am still 13 miles away..i am a deputy rep so my case was heard under section 4 with div rep but manager will still not let me back in office..i have since had fact finding interview and nothing new was asked in it,....i am losing my S/A and it's driving me insane travelling....by the way no one signed any statements before the fact finding interviews or no harrassment forms were filled out.

Line manager who took fact finding said to me that pressures above are stopping him ending it there.

Can the DOM keep a case going even if we don't want to pursue it and there is no evidence linking me to any incident?

Cheers guys.

[dvbuk55]

This is a typical knee jerk reaction to a set of fairly innocuous comments/acts which under normal circumstances would have meant nothing. Obviously you are being made a scapegoat to discourage acts of disapproval of strikebreakers in the coming weeks. Ask for an appeal, if it is refused then take the case under harassment procedure naming the line manager as a witness and the DOM as the instigator.

[johnnyp]

Can the DOM keep a case going even if we don't want to pursue it and there is no evidence linking me to any incident?


I dont see how they can,get your area rep on the case,im sure that once fact finding has been done a decision must be made within something like 48 hrs if they dont case is thrown out and you should return to your office.

We need a rep on here to give advice on this a bit sharpish.

[Bert66]

Forgot to say he already gave me a suspended dismissal reduced to 2 years serious on appeal for walking out of a team brief...he has it in for me big time.

Area rep sat with me on fact finding as i was transfered in his office...demanded return but nothing happening.

[cruisey]

Firstly bert66, unless a grievence has been put in by either of the people involved in the incident, you shouldnt have been moved to another office. Not sure if it's gone as far as a conduct issue. Need to know more info. Has the DUM done a fact finding interview? Until he's done a fact finding interview there's no ground for him to move you. After a fact finding interview and if the charge substanciates it the DUM could issue a suspension with pay to one or both of you.
APPENDIX 4.1 states that in all employees must be trated fairly. By moving you and not the other fella, you're not being treated fairly.
Your DUM could have nipped this in the bud if necessary with a counselling session. They're not being leaned on at all. To me mate it's just an excuse to keep the deputy rep out of the office whilst the dispute is going on.
Your rep should be fighting tooth and nail to get you back. Also, put a greivence in against your manager/line manager as you're being discriminated against
hope this is helpful

[Bert66]

the line manager did the fact finding interview on Friday 4 days after i was moved!!

The line they used was a precautionary transfer

Also thanks for any info.

[vigilante]

cruisey is right, you shouldn't have been moves out because there is no grievance issued by either party.
this should have been a simple matter dealt with in office and forgotten.
seems management want to make more of everything at moment, s****y because of support for strike.
as suggested put a grievance in about being moved when no harrassment charge has been made by either party.

[ROCKY]

HAVE YOU BEEN PAID TRAVELLING COSTS IF YOU HAVE BEEN MOVED AGAINST YOUR WILL YOU SHOULD BE IN LINE FOR SOMETHING PLUS IF YOU CLAIM HARDSHIP SCHOOLS ETC YOU NEVER KNOW,PLUS ASK FOR AN INDEPENDENT REVIEW FROM AN OUT OF AREA MANAGER AND TAKE YOUR EX/ CURRENT MATE WITH YOU AS YOU ARE ENTITLED TO SUPPORT

[Bert66]

Thats a good idea taking him into represent me and visa versa...on to it!

[Bert66]

Hi guys just an update on this one..54 days after the incident i have now recieved a letter from the DOM charging myself with Gross Misconduct.

One question....the DOM has also included in their charge of gross misconduct, two other incidents that i have only just got to know about. Can the proceedure allow for someone to commit an alleged incident 50 days ago and not have an initial chat or fact finding and then to jump straight up to formal conduct interview to bundle it up with the original charge?

So to simplfy:

Charge 1: Verbal Provacation 54 days ago (initial chat and fact finding)

Charge 2: Incident 50 days ago (no initial chat and fact finding only found out in DOMS letter)

Charge 3: Incident 48 days ago (no initial chat and fact finding only found out in DOMS letter)

Finally the DOM has forgotten to add all relevant paperwork they will be using to charge in my envelope...should i contact them before interview or attend and use as defence?

Thanks in advance chaps...

[POSTMAN]

f***ing ell!
I'm sending this link to someone on here,hopefully he'll be able to help you out.
This is f***ing crazy!

[lovejoy]

This situation is typical of the reactions from them at the minute.

As a quick fix you should both put grievances against the DOM. In your grievance you shoudl both state that an incident took place but also state that as per the conduct code, Bullying and harassment procedure and every national agreement you have resolved the issue informally.

You should then state that on this basis that your DOM has acted outside of National agreements.

On the form it will also state 'are the ant practical steps that would resolve your grievance?' in this section you should simply state that you wish to be put back into your office with immediate affect.

Also if I were your rep I would be writing to CWU HQ stating that RM ahve acted outside of national agreements and requesting a ballot of your DO. There is a 99.9% chance that the ballot will never even be issued but the notification alone will force Royal Mails hand.

Hope this helps, good luck mate!

[Bert66]

Thanks for all your help!

I did put a 2nd stage grievance in about the way the case had been handled on 23/7/07 but they (personel)said it had to be heard within the dicipline interview itself as 80% of the grievance consisted of anomalies within the case. So i still haven't had one heard yet either.

But i will do another tomorrow on what you have said.

[Bert66]

Just to update and conclude, 129 days after the incident Royal Mail decided to give me a disciplinary transfer out of my office and a 2 year suspended dismissal, other guy goes in tomorrow.

A big stich up.

As a rep my appeal is under appendix 4 (which i think they didn't realise!!)...does anyone have any info on this or been through it before?