some help please bit confused ????

[wigglywoo12]

hello folks

i was hoping for some help please i started as a part time postie in november 2006 and from when i first started i was meant to be a leave reserve,but my manager at the time (he is no longer in our office) put me on basically whatever he needed me to do at the time e.g part time and full time duties.

when i did full time duties he had me coming in at the same time as full timers sorting the same as the sorters basically everything full time which i didnt mind as im on a 27 1/2 hr contract and the extra money was nice.sometimes he would even get me doing full weeks as full time but i have just been made aware that i have never been paid early shift allowance basically for 3 years.

i didnt actually know i was entitled to it i dont know if i am.the reason i am concerned is that another postie works at our office exactly the same contract and grade as me but started 2 months before i did and has always got it.so i questioned this with my current manager who said he would contact payroll about this issue as he thought that backpay would only go back as far as six months.this went on for 2 weeks as i kept asking what the response was and he kept telling me he had heard nothing back.

so in the end he told me to ring in which i did explained the situation to them and was told that no one had called on my behalf and this was the first they new anything about it.anyway i was told on the phone that this wouldnt be a problem and the manager could send in a hr18 form for my claim,the only problem is that they said it would be impossible to track what duties i did and when so i would have to go in with my union rep and come to some arrangement on back pay that would be fair to all parties.

i went back to my manager with this new information and he said he would contact payroll has he has a friend there that could help with the situation.2 days later my manager came back to me and said that i would not be entitled to back pay or any early shift allowance because of "the way forward agreement" and that this was told to him by payroll.his reasons for this was when i did the full time duties and started early i got paid overtime for doing it so i wasnt entitled to early shift allowance.

but it would have to be overtime because i was meant to be on a 5 and half hour day but got it increased to 8 hours as the manager wanted me in early.i have yet to tell my local rep about the last bit as i wont see him till next week.but i feel rather agreived that i have been told one thing by payroll and another thing has been said to my manager.

i was also told by the union to take out a greivance if i was not happy with the situation i mentioned this to my manager and he said if i did it would be a personal greivance against him as it would seem that i would be accusing him of standing in the way of a positive outcome any advice would be great sorry its so long

thankyou

[coxie]

I think he is right with the way forward agreement thing mate, people at our office are doing their day off and working a night instead over xmas but they get paid overtime and for that reason they dont get the night allowance (early shift allowance). So if you want my honest opinion I dont think you will ever get it, im not 100% sure on the matter so someone else might be able to give you more hope than I could. I'm sure they put something in place recently too where new people dont get early shift allowance anyway but I dont know when the cut off period for that was, might have been in the pay and modernization agreement.

[Kpostbun]

It was my understanding during the strikes of 2007 when we were fighting against a change from 5 to 6am that the agreement reached was that the early shift allowance we currently got was protected while we were doing the job of delivery, just as phgs still get their extra payment when their role was fazed out. In other words those already getting it could keep it unless for instance they chose to do another shift such as collections. You will only get overtime for this i am sure. Sorry

[wigglywoo12]

i had been doing early starts tho before the 2007 agreement came into place also the overtime i booked was at the end of my shift not the start of it so if i was due to start at 5:15am my actual hours would be to 10:45 then i would book 2 hr 30mins to make it up to the 8hrs so i was booking 10:45am-13:15 if that helps
thanks

[shadow]

I would hardly call the flat rate overtime.

[Geezer]

wigglywoo12

I got this recently from my Branch Sec.

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Annual Leave Entitlements for PT staff

We have mentioned this before as you will know. We have sought the involvement of CWU HQ and they have now written to Royal Mail to see if they will pay average hours for part time staff.

Since then we are now aware that a postie in Norwich has won an employment tribunal on the principle of average hours. Additionally, all part time staff in Post Office Limited receive average hours.

With this being the case we now want to move forward on this subject. Please can you either email or call me or your area rep to discuss so we can progress this with RM. Initially this will mean a basic grievance is submitted which the Branch will assist you with. Some grievances are now about to be submitted so the more the better.

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Might be worth you or any other PT workers asking their Reps about it, As RM lost the case they had to pay Holiday Pay averaged on what hours people had actually worked and not just their contracted hours.

[wigglywoo12]

i may be wrong but i feel i may be being stung out of £600 or more cos thats what im owed if im entitled to it.my manager just keeps saying "you did overtime so your not entitled to the early shift allowance" but the best bit is he has said he can start paying me for it now.so why can i not get it from before?

[coxie]

i still dont think you get early shift allowance if your on overtime becuase its your choice, if you work a night at my office on overtime you dont get extra early shift allowance. Your manager seems confused though he sounds like he dont know either so he is just trying to fob you off, keep trying to find out for sure.

[wigglywoo12]

then this is the bit i dont get if your part time then your never gonna get it or have been entitled to it cos the only way your ever gonna be in at an uneartly hour eg 5am is if you do overtime so overtime no early shift allowance.i have never know a part timer kick in before 6am in the morning but like i have said some part timers have had it from when they first started.

[wingmanchillian]

i may be wrong but i feel i may be being stung out of £600 or more cos thats what im owed if im entitled to it.my manager just keeps saying "you did overtime so your not entitled to the early shift allowance" but the best bit is he has said he can start paying me for it now.so why can i not get it from before?

my understanding was if you were part time you got £6 odd and full time £12.37. this was stopped in april(?) 07 but protected by grandfather rights for those who received it before. EDIT: of course if you never started early in the first place your probably not entitled to it.

if you started in 06 and didn't receive it at all i would think even if they classed it as OT you should still have that £6 odd back dated, but im not 100% on that

might be worth ringing payroll again and getting the name of that person so your manager can contact them directly.

[wigglywoo12]

hi again

just to add again do i stand a chance with this as like i said i booked overtime at the end of my shift the last 2 and half hours so i didnt do overtime in the morning my start time was 5:15am.i need to know cos if i hit a brick wall with dom again i think a grevience is going to have to go in.spoke to some colleuges also who are p/t started same time as me and there getiing it still.

[Thunderthighs]

I had something similar happen few years ago, when I was "green".
Returned from an eve collection, and did segging for 15 mins, and put this as O/T.
Noticed after a while that no O/T shown on wage chit.
Confronted the DOM and was told that, "No, you're supposed to drop it off then go home. I'm not going to pay you!"
MORAL: Don't do it again and be less gulible!!!

[wingmanchillian]

hi again

just to add again do i stand a chance with this as like i said i booked overtime at the end of my shift the last 2 and half hours so i didnt do overtime in the morning my start time was 5:15am.i need to know cos if i hit a brick wall with dom again i think a grevience is going to have to go in.spoke to some colleuges also who are p/t started same time as me and there getiing it still.

if your start time is 5:15 you should be entitled to the £12 odd. as far as im aware its not worked out by if your PT or FT its purely a case of start times and 5:15 would qualify you for the full amount. If you have others that started same time as you and get it then im pretty sure your entitled to it. we've got people in my office on 30hr contracts who receive the £12.37 and have it protected by grandfather rights.

[wigglywoo12]

thanks wing my 5:15am start time was when i only did full time duties other than that it was 6:15am for part time duties so should i still have been entitled to it.like i said there is some other staff on my place getting a set amount every week of about £4.80 odd same amount every week and have done since first started

[dvbuk55]

thanks wing my 5:15am start time was when i only did full time duties other than that it was 6:15am for part time duties so should i still have been entitled to it.like i said there is some other staff on my place getting a set amount every week of about £4.80 odd same amount every week and have done since first started

Why not pm numpty bumpty - she works in payroll apparently and may well be able to help you specifically.