The political stance of the CWU

[Big Daz]

At the moment the offical political stance of the CWU is to support ONLY the Labour party and by default the government of the day when it is formed of Labour party MP's.

I think its safe to say that some members want this to end, which if happens means we should debate exactly how the CWU will operate in the Political Arena.

Do want blanket support for one political party or support indviduals that meet CWU criteria for support?

What sort of support should we give ? Financial or practical or both?

[weetrogg]

Again big daz you talk about this union as if it is a democratic organisation. If this union was democratic we would have had a ballot on dissafiliating from New Labour, why hasnt this happened- its because a few unaccountably officials in the EC/HQ dont want to ruin their chances of a possible political career. If a ballot was held it would probably be a big yes vote for dissafiliating but their is no way HQ will authorise a ballot

On a personal note i think we should dissafilate ASAP like the RMT,PCS and FBU after all if a political party will only support you because of you donations what does that say about them?? Anyway as our dispute has shown it doesnt really matter if you are giving them cash they will just bring in an unelected crook who will follow his own agenda

[ass asin]

time to disalfilliate.
time to tell this labour party leadership we will not financially support them anymore.
time to put our money to better use.
time to sponsor individual mps with our interests at heart.
time our leadership listened.
time to put disafilliation to the vote.
time for change

[Big Daz]

Weetrog, the offical line from HQ which many have swallowed,is that is not time to break the link, it would send out the wrong message we would be asking for support from people we have stopped supporting et etc.


However that then raises your valid point which I am totally in agreement with of after all if a political party will only support you because of you donations what does that say about them??


Labour MP's were elected on a clear manifesto on policy towards RM and a whole host of other issues , many of those poliices will not be implemented at the time of the General Election , especially the changes in the law for agency workers which has been delayed untill 2011 making it easier for the next government to abandon that if they so choose to do so.

RM policy from Labour was fully restored to good health and rewarding employment, will we have that by June 2010?

I wonder if CWU will be urging its members to vote Labour in the Glasgow North East by election?

Assuming the CWU stays active in the political arena then my view is that blanket support of any one party is no good for the membership and we shold consider not supporting any political party. We should campaign in the political arena for the interests of union members to become reality. We should present with a clear view of where political parties and thier canidates stand on key issues compared to CWU policy.

Trade unions are regulated by law and to a certain extent the law can prevent us functioning as we might wish to do, so sttraight away there is a issue to campaign on which by law if it incurrs any expenditure will have to come from a political fund. The political fund itself is governed by law and unions by law have to ask their members (all members I belive not just political levy paying members) evry ten years to vote to retain or scrap the levy. By law the political levy is opt out rather than opt in, some political parties including her majestys oppostion would have the law changed to opt in.

Now if the unions dont like these laws then the onoy option as I see it is to have a political fund and set forth into the political arena which then raises the question of do we operate in the political arena to A, make TU laws fairer and B, seek to change laws that affect workers such as the minium wage opt out of the maxium working week.


Plenty to think about comrades, but now I must dash to collect the tidly peeps from school.

[goinpostal]

We need a party that represents the working class - the great majority in this country and those that build society's wealth - and there isnt one at the moment so we will have to build another that connects all the fighting sections of the working class and campaigns for anti-capitalist solutions: public works to mop up unemployment paid for by taxing the rich, nationalisation without compensation and under workers control, etc. Every conference there are 10-20 resolutions that get smashed up in compositing on alternatives to Labour, sign the appeal and lets unite around building something that can last: http://anticapitalistparty.org.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BELIAL]

There's always someone with more money.
Things tend to change when people burn things down

[Post Off]

Hm, this is an interesting discussion, and as much as I'd like to add my 2 cents into the bargain, I fear I still won't fully understand what benefit will yet be accorded us despite all our previous monetary support amounting next to fuggall, and that too whilst under the same stewardship of this crap government?

You know, I may just have a butcher's hook (look) at that Green party. Maybe I'm wrong, but that Gordon Brown is an unelected clown, who only seems to be hell bent on staying the distance without actually wanting to contest the next general election, or at least needing to be seen as wanting to contest for a general election win?

Having said that, I think Big Daz makes for a believable argument of sorts (sort of?) as to why we should perhaps stay with the devil we know. Kind of makes me wonder if we're now seeing the end of New Labour as it once horribly was?

[Big Daz]

I do not wish to see any political party getting CWU money, that includes the Green Party.

The only gain I wish to see from severance from the Labour Party is a gain for the membership as I do not belive blanket support for any one political party is in the best interest of the membership and even under the current set up of blanket support for one political party I fail to see how directing that support to labour is in the best interest of CWU mbrs and the CWU as a organasation.

What I do support is the membership getting the only say on if the monies in the political fund are spent on political parties and if so which one(s)

The political system does need reform but given what LP has suggested I dont see a lot of difference although there would be some. The voters/citizens of the UK all have differing views, some but not all of those views are curently represented in parliment. Whatever system we have the views curently expressed in parliment will still be there as some citizens /voters hold those views.

A need to ensure all views are heard in parliment, so the views of the minority can be considered is essential

Is PR the solution?

Is having MP's all sit as independents the answer and have all canidates subject thenselves to public Q and A sessions the answer?

[brothermagrew]

I would rather see all political money scrapped and instead held in union funds whereby they can give full legal representation to all CWU members who are facing increasing bullying and harassment and conduct code action. Take them on in the courts or employment tribunals with the knowledge that at least we will have the money to put to legal use.

[Tman]

The political system does need reform but given what LP has suggested I dont see a lot of difference although there would be some. The voters/citizens of the UK all have differing views, some but not all of those views are curently represented in parliment. Whatever system we have the views curently expressed in parliment will still be there as some citizens /voters hold those views.

"You can't please all of the people all of the time" as the old quote goes. LP is just randomly ranting; everyone's voice can't be heard on every decision, and it would be ludicrous to think it could. Nothing would ever be agreed, which is the very reason for having a parliamentary democracy.

A need to ensure all views are heard in parliment, so the views of the minority can be considered is essential

We have that now, don't we?

Is PR the solution

Yes, if you want a change of government every six months, and minority parties doing deals with the big ones and so gaining some power in a way unthinkable at present. Of course, if you'd like (say) the BNP to be doing underhand deals with the Tories then that's the way to go about it.

[dvbuk55]

There is a need for reform but whether proportional representation is the answer, I don't know. I may be way off the mark here and I must admit I haven't given it a lot of thought but would that not create a hung parliament at worst or a slim majority. A hung/slim majority means that governing the country would be almost impossible. It would lead to enforced coalitions which gives a small minority a disproportionate voice.

I would be more inclined to do away with the House of Lords and slim down Westminster. I would split the country into regions, each region would have a small contingent of representatives who would be elected on merit, not political affiliation. Each region would have a working group to oversee expenditure of funds provided by a central office. Those funds would be decided on population and the demographic of that population, those funds would vary as the demograpic changed. So in year one there was 100,000 requiring education and 90,000 requiring care for the elderly, that would represent one scale and in year 5 say the roles were reversed so that would mean a seperate scale.

[Big Daz]

I would rather see all political money scrapped and instead held in union funds whereby they can give full legal representation to all CWU members who are facing increasing bullying and harassment and conduct code action. Take them on in the courts or employment tribunals with the knowledge that at least we will have the money to put to legal use.

That would require a 10 pence a week increase in subs for those who dont pay in to the levy, however its a price worth paying.

For the rest of us the 10 pence increase is counteracted by scrapping the political levy/fund.

If the PF were scrapped the money would go into the general fund, but without a increase in subs once that money from the PF is spent we would not be able to increase service to mbrs that cost the CWU money without diverting money from elsewhere.

[dvbuk55]

I would rather see all political money scrapped and instead held in union funds whereby they can give full legal representation to all CWU members who are facing increasing bullying and harassment and conduct code action. Take them on in the courts or employment tribunals with the knowledge that at least we will have the money to put to legal use.

That would require a 10 pence a week increase in subs for those who dont pay in to the levy, however its a price worth paying.

For the rest of us the 10 pence increase is counteracted by scrapping the political levy/fund.

If the PF were scrapped the money would go into the general fund, but without a increase in subs once that money from the PF is spent we would not be able to increase service to mbrs that cost the CWU money without diverting money from elsewhere.

OR - just put the price down to what it would be without the political levy - after all - we haven't had a pay rise this year, next to FA last year, several days lost pay through strike action. so what a magnificent gesture that would be - BUT - does anyone think the subs will be going up? - I mean if we pull the plug on Labour we'll be saving £7million is it over 5 years?

[Big Daz]

Simply getting rid of the PF isnt going to put more money into the general fund week in week out. The general fund would get a one off cash injection but unless the subs for the general fund go up, then there is not going to be any more income weekly/monthly for the CWU.

Once the PF is scrapped we are paying 10 pence a week less from our wages to the CWU. The amount we pay into the general fund stays the same unless the NEC choose to increase it.

[dvbuk55]

Simply getting rid of the PF isnt going to put more money into the general fund week in week out. The general fund would get a one off cash injection but unless the subs for the general fund go up, then there is not going to be any more income weekly/monthly for the CWU.

Once the PF is scrapped we are paying 10 pence a week less from our wages to the CWU. The amount we pay into the general fund stays the same unless the NEC choose to increase it.

Hey BD - maybe the CWU should learn to cut it's cloth according to it's members purse - they get less - so do we, they are not going to get more weekly/monthly, neither are we.