Recording Disciplinary Hearing

[JellyTots]

Is there any rule / guideline as to the use of a recording device at a disciplinary hearing. In the absence of representation I would like to have a record of what was said by whom etc.

[Pat Ostman]

In the absence of representation

Just to add my 2p, why would you go in without it? If your local rep is not around, get area one in.

NEVER EVER GO IN ALONE, at the least bring a mate who works there.

[JellyTots]

Unfortunately or fortunately I have not been at my DO long enough to approach anyone to sit-in with me. I am being disciplined on one issue, but at the preliminary discussion a lot of other contrived nonsense was thrown at me about my character etc. The word 'militant' was used to describe me. Yeah, I was on the picket line last Friday...my first time. Is this description too much of a coincidence? I can't avoid being disciplined for the 'mistake' I made, but I'm not that keen on being 'punished' for having a mind of my own.

[Pat Ostman]

Unfortunately or fortunately I have not been at my DO long enough to approach anyone to sit-in with me. I am being disciplined on one issue, but at the preliminary discussion a lot of other contrived nonsense was thrown at me about my character etc. The word 'militant' was used to describe me. Yeah, I was on the picket line last Friday...my first time. Is this description too much of a coincidence? I can't avoid being disciplined for the 'mistake' I made, but I'm not that keen on being 'punished' for having a mind of my own.

Gotya, seriously though mate. Join the Union and get some sort of rep involved. These people are sneaky, deceptive, liars and bullies. On your own they'll throw all sorts of crap at you they wouldn't DARE say if you had representation.

If that's really not possible (and it should never be) then tape record the whole thing and tell them you are going to.

I have been in the same boat as you but I had the area rep involved. The whole case dried up and nothing happened to me. I can only go on my own experience.

[Pat Ostman]

Oh, and are we talking about the managers best mate 'Wilful Delay' here?

[Thunderthighs]

You can record electronic stuff, phones calls etc, with the other persons permission. But your not to share it with another party, apparently.
No sure about "live" stuff. Ask and if they refuse, for what reason do they object? Guilty or what?...

I was off after AOD, got call to come in "to discuss AOD". Got there in good faith, Regional Manager I'd never met before there too, to "ask/tell" me to start work that day...Has to fight my corner, and place was almost deserted, but...Rep/and Reg Rep there as it happens, discussing some other case.
So relayed what happened to them and they both siad they'd back me up, but I didn't need them later - thankfully.

[JellyTots]

Thanks for your replies.
I am in the CWP. Getting my membership was the first thing I did even before I lifted a mail pouch. I just didn't expect to be in this position so quickly.
I've got until Friday a.m. to sort something out. In the meantime if there is anything else that comes to mind that can help me, please let me know.

[Pat Ostman]

Thanks for your replies.
I am in the CWP. Getting my membership was the first thing I did even before I lifted a mail pouch. I just didn't expect to be in this position so quickly.
I've got until Friday a.m. to sort something out. In the meantime if there is anything else that comes to mind that can help me, please let me know.

You can delay that meeting to help you find time getting a rep. Just let them know you will not be able to attend 'that day'.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Unfortunately or fortunately I have not been at my DO long enough to approach anyone to sit-in with me. I am being disciplined on one issue, but at the preliminary discussion a lot of other contrived nonsense was thrown at me about my character etc. The word 'militant' was used to describe me. Yeah, I was on the picket line last Friday...my first time. Is this description too much of a coincidence? I can't avoid being disciplined for the 'mistake' I made, but I'm not that keen on being 'punished' for having a mind of my own.

If you were on the picket line last time then just ask any of the others that were there, I am sure one of them would attend as a witness or even contact a rep to assist you. Even if you do not contact them your self, or have contact from them you are still entitled to ask for someone to attend the meeting with you as a witness as they cannot refuse, its not a RM agreement which they can ignore - its the law of the land.

http://www.yourlegalrights.co.uk/employ ... ry-process" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You have the right to take a colleague or trade union representative to the disciplinary hearing and the appeal meeting. Your employer does not have to let you bring a solicitor to either meeting.

[brothermagrew]

JellyTots re Union representation or the right to be accompanied:

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... on#p161980" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[norbert]

Unfortunately or fortunately I have not been at my DO long enough to approach anyone to sit-in with me. I am being disciplined on one issue, but at the preliminary discussion a lot of other contrived nonsense was thrown at me about my character etc. The word 'militant' was used to describe me. Yeah, I was on the picket line last Friday...my first time. Is this description too much of a coincidence? I can't avoid being disciplined for the 'mistake' I made, but I'm not that keen on being 'punished' for having a mind of my own.

all that stuff about being " militant " is purely to impress a more senior manager , they'll throw sh** at you as they've got to be seen to be singing from the RM hymn sheet . Everything is to a foregone conclusion . Far too much politics with or without a small p and a too regimented management style .

It's all corporate cr** , a activist is someone who once went to a union meeting , anybody going into the union room suddenly becomes Arthur Scargill's love child . At one time RM would couch things in deliberately vague terms to make things look superficially " straight " but there is obviously more pressure now .

That's why you should never go in without a rep .

It's a employment law offence to use detriment for legitimate trade union activity .. A Employment solicitor would class all this contrived rubbish as " suspicious issues " and draw " adverse inferences " from it all . |

As for making recordings , RM will complain that you were being underhand but a Tribunal would judge that in actuality , it was RM that were being underhand as they were deliberately saying things as they believed there was no witnesses and thought they could get away with it .

In short - the greater " sin " .

[bandit1157]

Thanks for your replies.
I am in the CWP. Getting my membership was the first thing I did even before I lifted a mail pouch. I just didn't expect to be in this position so quickly.
I've got until Friday a.m. to sort something out. In the meantime if there is anything else that comes to mind that can help me, please let me know.

You can delay that meeting to help you find time getting a rep. Just let them know you will not be able to attend 'that day'.

they cannot force you to attend the meeting without a rep. contact the rep and he will arrange it for a time when all parties can be present. just be aware of the "can i just have a word with you in the office" take a witness, don't go in by yourself.

[neilf]

Hi guys, sorry for jumping in, I can't help you much with the Union side of things but I do know a bit about recording...

Basically if the recording is for your own personal use, you may record without telling the other party. However that recording is inadmissible as any kind of evidence in a court or tribunal.

If you want to use the recording as evidence, you need their permission, ideally on the recording itself.

Of course, I would be willing to bet that your request would be refused, on the proviso you would get full notes of the meeting. Of course, the cynic in me thinks that there is an obvious problem - if you go in alone, you rely on those notes to be accurate and without bias, as well as being complete with no omissions.

At the very least get someone else to go in with you so they can make their own notes, and if it transpires that your 'official' copy of the notes as provided to you by HR / your manager is no good, at least you will have a colleague to back you up.

[concerned]

hey, you are always allowed a third party in this type of thing. Even if its not a union rep. And i think (you have to double check) but it can even be someone from outside the company....

[brothermagrew]

Hi guys, sorry for jumping in, I can't help you much with the Union side of things but I do know a bit about recording...

Basically if the recording is for your own personal use, you may record without telling the other party. However that recording is inadmissible as any kind of evidence in a court or tribunal.

If you want to use the recording as evidence, you need their permission, ideally on the recording itself.

Of course, I would be willing to bet that your request would be refused, on the proviso you would get full notes of the meeting. Of course, the cynic in me thinks that there is an obvious problem - if you go in alone, you rely on those notes to be accurate and without bias, as well as being complete with no omissions.

At the very least get someone else to go in with you so they can make their own notes, and if it transpires that your 'official' copy of the notes as provided to you by HR / your manager is no good, at least you will have a colleague to back you up.

Have a read at this bro

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/20 ... _1509.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;