Meal breaks

[Alexei]

Trouble is how do they prove that the employee actually took their break and didn't just simply bugger off home?

Well my intial response was that a manager would be present, but @Woody Guthrie has just quoted TWFA on the procedure.

[SpacePhoenix]

To keep employees in the building until their official finish time would be venturing into illegal territory I'm sure, and to allow employees to take their final 20 minutes off site, but demand them to come back and sign out at the official time would be petty.

Trouble is how do they prove that the employee actually took their break and didn't just simply bugger off home?

We're entitled to bugger off home.
That's stated clearly in the way forward agreement.

Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

Wrong! That was superseded by the Pay & Mod Agreement:

https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... eement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Page 7

- To ensure all paid hours are utilised

[Alexei]

Wrong! That was superseded by the Pay & Mod Agreement:

https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... eement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Page 7

- To ensure all paid hours are utilised

To be fair, if there is only meal relief time left on someones shift, then the hours can't really be utilised unless the employee is willing to work for nothing.

[SpacePhoenix]

Wrong! That was superseded by the Pay & Mod Agreement:

https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... eement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Page 7

- To ensure all paid hours are utilised

To be fair, if there is only meal relief time left on someones shift, then the hours can't really be utilised unless the employee is willing to work for nothing.

Trouble is the DOM has to make sure that the meal relief is actually taken, if it isn't then what's to stop the DOM from making the sift shorter and depending on the duty length it could result in a drop in meal relief entitlement

[Woody Guthrie]

To keep employees in the building until their official finish time would be venturing into illegal territory I'm sure, and to allow employees to take their final 20 minutes off site, but demand them to come back and sign out at the official time would be petty.

Trouble is how do they prove that the employee actually took their break and didn't just simply bugger off home?

We're entitled to bugger off home.
That's stated clearly in the way forward agreement.

Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

Wrong! That was superseded by the Pay & Mod Agreement:

https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... eement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Page 7

- To ensure all paid hours are utilised

What has utilising all paid hours got to do with meal breaks, meal breaks are already utilised hours, it's when you take your meal break.

It's not up to managers to ensure meal breaks are taken, it's up to management to make sure meal breaks are provided.

All revision activity in a DO uses the way forward with respect to meal breaks, it's written into the Rep's Guidance Document, You're obsessed with delivery staff finishing early but you have no knowledge of how a delivery office works, I've been a rep for 20 years in a delivery office. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

[SpacePhoenix]

You're obsessed with delivery staff finishing early

Staff finishing early gives management scope to cut hours, as a rep I would have expected you to know that

[Woody Guthrie]

You're obsessed with delivery staff finishing early

Staff finishing early gives management scope to cut hours, as a rep I would have expected you to know that

We're not talking about staff finishing early, we're talking about scheduled meal relief. You have hijacked the thread to once again go on about delivery staff finishing early and how the 'higher ups' will cut these hours.

In a DO part of that meal relief can be scheduled at the end of your duty. There is no scope in that equation to cut hours because the meal relief is.... scheduled.

[SpacePhoenix]

You're obsessed with delivery staff finishing early

Staff finishing early gives management scope to cut hours, as a rep I would have expected you to know that

We're not talking about staff finishing early, we're talking about scheduled meal relief. You have hijacked the thread to once again go on about delivery staff finishing early and how the 'higher ups' will cut these hours.

In a DO part of that meal relief can be scheduled at the end of your duty. There is no scope in that equation to cut hours because the meal relief is.... scheduled.

You keep missing the point, when someone goes home instead of taking their meal relief in the office, there's no way to prove if they actually took their meal relief or just went home early because they finished early. The PDA actuals will just show them as being back, say 25mins before their scheduled finish time. The PDA actuals obviously won't show how much of their meal relief has been taken before they headed out but will show when they've taken it part way around their walk. Higher up are just going to assume that the person has taken their meal relief partly before they headed out on their walk and the rest during their walk. Any time at the end will be looked at as possible time to be removed from the office.

RM is a private company which like any private company has to make profits to pay shre holder dividends, any time that they can be take out of DOs saves money and means more profit for the shareholders

[clashcityrocker]

I don't really understand how the higher ups can actually work anything out from the PDA actuals.
Different DOs have different start and finish times.
Even within DOs people on different attendance patterns have different finish times and people on 3 day weeks sometimes have different finish times.
And then there are people on hybrid duties, people coming back to pick up their lapsing or perform overtime.....
And probably a million other possible permutations.

To actually work anything out from the PDA actuals would take so long that any potential savings would disappear immediately.

That said, even in an ideal DO where everyone worked to the same finish time, if the actual finish time was 2.30, then anything before 2.10 would be finishing early.
Any large dots could not be meal relief taken out on delivery.

A large part of the problem is RM is, and always has been, very lax when it comes to people taking their meal relief.
Too many people are allowed to decide when they take their meal releif or if they take it at all.
It needs to be scheduled by consent for everybody. And then that is when you take it.

[Woody Guthrie]

I don't think you really understand how a DO works SP. Breaks are scheduled as part of a revision process, when the 'Higher ups' as you like to call them ask why staff are going home 20 minutes early the DOM and I pull out the revision agreement and tell them it is because that's when their second break is scheduled.

If they're scheduled to take the first part before departure then that's when they take it, if they're scheduled to take the first part out on delivery that's when they take it. It has nothing to do with the PDA actuals.

Why would 'higher ups' just assume that the person has taken their meal relief partly before they headed out on their walk and the rest during their walk when the DOM, the rep, the revision document and the staff say otherwise?

Why would they make any assumptions when they're on the conference call every day asking these exact questions?

[SpacePhoenix]

I don't think you really understand how a DO works SP. Breaks are scheduled as part of a revision process, when the 'Higher ups' as you like to call them ask why staff are going home 20 minutes early the DOM and I pull out the revision agreement and tell them it is because that's when their second break is scheduled.

If they're scheduled to take the first part before departure then that's when they take it, if they're scheduled to take the first part out on delivery that's when they take it. It has nothing to do with the PDA actuals.

Why would 'higher ups' just assume that the person has taken their meal relief partly before they headed out on their walk and the rest during their walk when the DOM, the rep, the revision document and the staff say otherwise?

Why would they make any assumptions when they're on the conference call every day asking these exact questions?

Could you actually prove how much of their meal relief they've taken before they head out on their walk and how much they've taken partway (and not just a section where they've just not taken the PDA with them)? When their scheduled to take it, is not worth the paper its written on, just look at how many come in early before their "scheduled" time and how many work through their "scheduled" meal relief

[Woody Guthrie]

You're just not getting it SP.
It's not up to anyone to prove anything. It's not even about whether they take those breaks.

That's when their breaks are scheduled, that's how delivery offices are resourced. A+B+C=D. Indoor +Outdoor +Meal relief =Duty Span.

It's not rocket science.

[clashcityrocker]

However if the meal relief is scheduled as part before delivery and part during then anyone returning to the office before the end of their contracted hours is deemed to be finishing early.
Even if nobody is taking any of it at any point.

No "higher up" is going to demand hours be taken out of a DO if there is no scope to take that time out because the office will fall over.
That isn't good for anyone.

[SpacePhoenix]

You're just not getting it SP.
It's not up to anyone to prove anything. It's not even about whether they take those breaks.

That's when their breaks are scheduled, that's how delivery offices are resourced. A+B+C=D. Indoor +Outdoor +Meal relief =Duty Span.

It's not rocket science.

The scheduled time doesn't mean a thing, there's a bit on everyone's 318 that reads something like "or as directed" so the managers are well within their rights to have you take your meal relief either all before you head out or part before you head out and the other partway through your round

[rambo1]

I don't think you really understand how a DO works SP. Breaks are scheduled as part of a revision process, when the 'Higher ups' as you like to call them ask why staff are going home 20 minutes early the DOM and I pull out the revision agreement and tell them it is because that's when their second break is scheduled.

If they're scheduled to take the first part before departure then that's when they take it, if they're scheduled to take the first part out on delivery that's when they take it. It has nothing to do with the PDA actuals.

Why would 'higher ups' just assume that the person has taken their meal relief partly before they headed out on their walk and the rest during their walk when the DOM, the rep, the revision document and the staff say otherwise?

Why would they make any assumptions when they're on the conference call every day asking these exact questions?

This is how our office works, agreed by area Union rep. Everyone must take half meal relief before delivery, usually 20 mins. Therefore it is presumed any stoppage (meal relief) that shows up on the PDA actuals over the remaining amount , usually 20 mins, is taken off your claimed overtime for that day. Again, the Union are aware of this. All this does for the majority who just want to get out after only being at work for a couple of hrs, is that they only have half their meal relief they are entitled to. OK this is their choice however, if they'd been allowed to take it all out on delivery without 'sacraficing' 20 mins of docket they probably would have done. Of course if you are not claiming any overtime they can't take any off you, now, I can't say for certain if a blind eye is turned to those people but if it is it is not fair. If they come back on time and it is showing up on the PDA that they had 40 mins break, then under the presumption that they should have had 20 mins before going out on delivery, they have had 60 mins (whether they have or not) , and should 'owe' 20 mins or to look at it another way, they are finishing 20 mins early (even though they are back on time having took 40 mins out on delivery.
Hope this makes sense to you.