NWpostie wrote:Not really. its the one who didn't vote thats the problem.
Why?
If they didn't want to vote Yes and they didn't want to vote No what other option did they have?
An either/or ballot isn't much use when both options are unpalatable.
Its quite simple, I will say it with one simple easy word "Apathy"
Six of Nine loves Seven of Nine, together in Electric Dreams.
NWpostie wrote:Not really. its the one who didn't vote thats the problem.
Why?
If they didn't want to vote Yes and they didn't want to vote No what other option did they have?
An either/or ballot isn't much use when both options are unpalatable.
Its quite simple, I will say it with one simple easy word "Apathy"
Apathy is not the sole reason though. As FT intimates, indecision, lack of information, fear and greed all had a role to play.
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NWpostie wrote: Its quite simple, I will say it with one simple easy word "Apathy"
I spelt out another "sensible" reason on another thread.
It's not what I would do but I can understand the reasoning and it isn't apathy, It's really lack of choice.
You have an agreement placed before you that the union endorses completely, It contains elements that might protect your job in the short term and a decent pay rise, You don't want to vote NO because you have little faith in the union being able or even willing to negotiate a better deal and there is really no plan B but...you work in delivery and feel let down, You can see the flaws in the protections and know for certain that the delivery reviews will lead to nothing, You're not prepared to vote YES to a no-strike deal and an agreement that does nothing for delivery members.
You hate the agreement but don't believe there will be anything better on offer so to be honest the only "sensible" option left for a lot of members might have been to throw the ballot paper in the bin.
Things evolve, we had the industrial revolution and the trade union movement grew. Apathy is taking over, where is this going to take us, we are not going to stop this trend and many people are beginning to discuss where this will take us, it may cause more change than a revolution.
NWpostie wrote: Its quite simple, I will say it with one simple easy word "Apathy"
I spelt out another "sensible" reason on another thread.
It's not what I would do but I can understand the reasoning and it isn't apathy, It's really lack of choice.
You have an agreement placed before you that the union endorses completely, It contains elements that might protect your job in the short term and a decent pay rise, You don't want to vote NO because you have little faith in the union being able or even willing to negotiate a better deal and there is really no plan B but...you work in delivery and feel let down, You can see the flaws in the protections and know for certain that the delivery reviews will lead to nothing, You're not prepared to vote YES to a no-strike deal and an agreement that does nothing for delivery members.
You hate the agreement but don't believe there will be anything better on offer so to be honest the only "sensible" option left for a lot of members might have been to throw the ballot paper in the bin.
just like when we get to vote every 4 years, do we give them the consent to carry on with their cheating lies ? a vote for the Union kinda mirrors a vote for Labour , nothing much will really change but as we are Labour we recognise the working class have it tough so we are prepared to throw them a few more extra scraps .
the reality is the Establishment in this country have got us well and truly stitched up and apart from a few fringe movements , there is nowhere for the ordinary working person to turn. regardless of your principles , the bottom line always comes done to money and can anyone argue this country is seriously not expensive to live in ?
I don't think it is a vote of Apathy , it is more a vote of Despair ........
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
Apathy is not the sole reason though. As FT intimates, indecision, lack of information, fear and greed all had a role to play.
Or even more likely, voters just thought it was better to take the deal on offer than not?
Why all this "if only you really understood..." condescending nonsense?
95-5 seems to be a ringing endorsement to me, but clearly the 5% knew something the rest were too dumb to see.
Tman wrote:Or even more likely, voters just thought it was better to take the deal on offer than not?
Why all this "if only you really understood..." condescending nonsense?
95-5 seems to be a ringing endorsement to me, but clearly the 5% knew something the rest were too dumb to see.
Might or might not be true but not really relevant since TBT and the poster he answered were both talking about non voters.
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Today the dom at our office got us all in the centre of the office and welcomed the result of the ballot The smile on his face when giving us the BS speech was unbelievable ( we've got you now..ha ha ha ..look ) BUT sadly are union rep was stood next to him copying his every reaction ....
who's more the fool, the fool , or the fool that follows the fool ?
Yes Fear and Greed were reasons for both voting Yes and Not voting, and in my case I freely admitted I was afraid of what a Yes to the deal would mean.
Tman wrote:Or even more likely, voters just thought it was better to take the deal on offer than not?
That quote also sounds like fear as well - fear that if they didn't vote yes then they would not get anything like it offered again.
Tman wrote:Why all this "if only you really understood..." condescending nonsense?
95-5 seems to be a ringing endorsement to me, but clearly the 5% knew something the rest were too dumb to see.
Admitting reasons behind how you voted or not , and suggesting why others voted is not condescending is it.
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Dvbuk-55: less than 4,000 voted No! Your mantra of doom and gloom obviously had an impact. All joking aside, whatever the result we will see huge changes in the way the business is run and admittedly pressure to perform which is prevalent in delivery will be cascaded down to MCs. What other choice was on the table if only 5% were minded to voted against the agreement? Private sector bench marks are already appearing in MCs and deliveries with the guise of WCM so members are aware of what is coming.
We are all in it together so let's stop the functional back stabbing and let's get CWUHQ to address the still outstanding issue of workload pressures and bullying issues which this forum highlights.
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.
John Stuart Mill
pcb wrote:Dvbuk-55: less than 4,000 voted No! Your mantra of doom and gloom obviously had an impact. All joking aside, whatever the result we will see huge changes in the way the business is run and admittedly pressure to perform which is prevalent in delivery will be cascaded down to MCs. What other choice was on the table if only 5% were minded to voted against the agreement? Private sector bench marks are already appearing in MCs and deliveries with the guise of WCM so members are aware of what is coming.
We are all in it together so let's stop the functional back stabbing and let's get CWUHQ to address the still outstanding issue of workload pressures and bullying issues which this forum highlights.
Next time I'm doing a naked NO tour on an open top bus, now if that doesn't persuade them nothing will.
Its quite simple, I will say it with one simple easy word "Apathy"
....
less than 4,000 voted No! Your mantra of doom and gloom obviously had an impact. All joking aside, whatever the result we will see huge changes in the way the business is run and admittedly pressure to perform which is prevalent in delivery will be cascaded down to MCs. What other choice was on the table if only 5% were minded to voted against the agreement? Private sector bench marks are already appearing in MCs and deliveries with the guise of WCM so members are aware of what is coming.
