Union agrees yet another extension

[daveyeff]

My biggest worry is that the union by taking this long to attempt to resolve the delivery issues has set a very high bar in relation to what the members will see coming out the other end.

There are already enough members who think that deliveries has been sold short,what will be the response if..

a) Any resultant deal on workload which may actually help in the long run is wrapped up in terms that are meaningless to the members.
b) Any resultant deal on workload is just meaningless.

What would be the headline grabbers that would make delivery members feel that their issues have been addressed? There will be no return to the good old days of bikes and early finishes,lapsing and absorbing may be more structured but they won't be going away,bullying and harassment is almost impossible to address while the business like a typical addict continues to deny it's a problem,1 in 4 Saturdays for all?...unlikely,Pegasus and the IWT binned?...not going to happen,Longer breaks?...I doubt it.
So what sexy items will satisfy delivery members?

we may, however, be going back to smaller deliveries. it has been mentioned that rm dont like the 9 day fortnites or the 3 weeks on and one off. and would like to see a return to 5 days a week. so if we go back to 5 day weeks they wouldnt be able to fit bigger deliveries into a day of 7hrs 48 mins.

[meweavy]

My biggest worry is that the union by taking this long to attempt to resolve the delivery issues has set a very high bar in relation to what the members will see coming out the other end.

There are already enough members who think that deliveries has been sold short,what will be the response if..

a) Any resultant deal on workload which may actually help in the long run is wrapped up in terms that are meaningless to the members.
b) Any resultant deal on workload is just meaningless.

What would be the headline grabbers that would make delivery members feel that their issues have been addressed? There will be no return to the good old days of bikes and early finishes,lapsing and absorbing may be more structured but they won't be going away,bullying and harassment is almost impossible to address while the business like a typical addict continues to deny it's a problem,1 in 4 Saturdays for all?...unlikely,Pegasus and the IWT binned?...not going to happen,Longer breaks?...I doubt it.
So what sexy items will satisfy delivery members?

we may, however, be going back to smaller deliveries. it has been mentioned that rm dont like the 9 day fortnites or the 3 weeks on and one off. and would like to see a return to 5 days a week. so if we go back to 5 day weeks they wouldnt be able to fit bigger deliveries into a day of 7hrs 48 mins.

that would mean more staff to do the new smaller duties that will be taken off the impossibly large duties we already have,i cant see royal mail spending any more money on more staff,unless 22 hours will be doing the new duties.
lets face it,royal mail have adsorbed so many duties with these new delivery methods,2 posties are now in effect doing 3 rounds absorbed into 2 duties plus the overweights,
basically the work of 3 people plus some of the old driving duty.
and now royal mail want to bring back 5 day weeks?
wont work unless they employ more staff.

[edwardo]

walking around like zombies great film starring dave and bob with moya putting bullet between there heads what other films come to mind?

pantomime season starring cwu &royal mail

[daveyeff]

well no one was out of a job at our office when the bt 2010 came in. so it would mean going back to the 3hrs 30 mins delivery and re-instating the status quo. breaking up all the idiotically stupidly long and heavy duties and putting them back as they were. that could be achieved on the current workforce. i cant see how they could go back to a 5 day week any other way.

[meweavy]

well no one was out of a job at our office when the bt 2010 came in. so it would mean going back to the 3hrs 30 mins delivery and re-instating the status quo. breaking up all the idiotically stupidly long and heavy duties and putting them back as they were. that could be achieved on the current workforce. i cant see how they could go back to a 5 day week any other way.

i cant see how it could be achieved with the current workforce,the 2 shared duties would have to go to 3 duties,an extra postie would be needed per every 2 duties that were made into 3 duties.

i cant see rm taken on so many new posties,and if they took on more 22 hours to do the 3rd duty,who would prep their walks?
we are spread thin on ips and double preps as it is,let alone prepping more duties.

if rm want a 5 day week then they have to employ truck loads more staff,or be prepared for truckloads more cut offs that would never get delivered.

[S6 Stroller]

To me it's quite strange how the lawyers did not know how long the ballot can be extended from the outset?

I'll wait to see what the agreement is before hanging CWU out to dry but this point is really p*ssing me off. The fact they said last time it couldn't legally be extended further and what a surprise, it turns out that if you ask your lawyers, it actually can be.

Can't work out if this is rank incompetence on behalf of CWU or just good old fashioned, honest to goodness, bullsh*t. I have a terrible feeling that we are being bent over by CWU and Royal Mail working in tandem.

[RTP]

My biggest worry is that the union by taking this long to attempt to resolve the delivery issues has set a very high bar in relation to what the members will see coming out the other end.

There are already enough members who think that deliveries has been sold short,what will be the response if..

a) Any resultant deal on workload which may actually help in the long run is wrapped up in terms that are meaningless to the members.
b) Any resultant deal on workload is just meaningless.

What would be the headline grabbers that would make delivery members feel that their issues have been addressed? There will be no return to the good old days of bikes and early finishes,lapsing and absorbing may be more structured but they won't be going away,bullying and harassment is almost impossible to address while the business like a typical addict continues to deny it's a problem,1 in 4 Saturdays for all?...unlikely,Pegasus and the IWT binned?...not going to happen,Longer breaks?...I doubt it.
So what sexy items will satisfy delivery members?

1. BSI capped at 75 -85 depending on the make up of the office and depending on whether or not TNT are delivering in your neck of the woods there is an argument that this could go up to 90.
2. Realistic outdoor walking speeds that take into account locking up HCT's, traffic volumes etc. For example we're not supposed to check the mail until we get to the door. Of course that's mostly ignored and is still done when bags are used or when no trolley is involved doing a small loop. With a LWT or HCT it negates the fact that it's done while walking to the address most of the time, therefore on a busy day you might be looking through an average of 5 letters per delivery point upon arriving on the doorstep. On a quiet day it might be one or two. It all adds up and if they want the job doing properly then we need the time to do it properly.
3. Delivery to neighbour built in. This needs to be done fairly by getting a average reading of distances from house to house on any given round. For example a round with mainly terraced houses will take less time to knock on a neighbour than it will for a open plan estate or a rural village.
4. A fairer method of distinguishing whether or not hours can be taken out of an office in accordance with traffic volumes rather than the current method of " a full timers just left, mails down, so we'll replace them with a part timer". Next month another full timer leaves " yeeess we'll replace them with another part timer and the office can absorb their workload as well"

Anyone else?

[OnAFlyer]

well no one was out of a job at our office when the bt 2010 came in. so it would mean going back to the 3hrs 30 mins delivery and re-instating the status quo. breaking up all the idiotically stupidly long and heavy duties and putting them back as they were. that could be achieved on the current workforce. i cant see how they could go back to a 5 day week any other way.

We never got off 5 day weeks. Our delivery spans are set around 4hrs 15, but we work less hours on a Monday and Tuesday and more Wed-Sat.

[Martin Walsh]

Chaps the delivery resolution is not going to be that a magic wand is waved and everything in delivery land will be returned to a time when everyone was happy. Anyone who thinks it was ever going too given the money which Royal Mail believe they can make from absorption and the current breaking of national agreements was obvious short sighted.

The way forward on deliveries will be something on bullying and harassment which is almost done. The second will be a total review of what is happening in delivery offices including a survey of staff and then resolving agreed issues. Royal Mail are in denial of the problems and therefore do not want to change issues. In addition lets be honest there are lots of problems in some offices which are not occurring in others. Some offices have adhered to the terms of the national agreement ie no 100 BSI , issues concerning absorption around an higher performance then what your office was agreed, the unagreed use of the 30 min flex and a whole host of issues.

So a full review of what is happening would be a good move forward. Then lets tackle the issues whether they are happening in a few offices or across the UK.

[Martin Walsh]

Chaps the delivery resolution is not going to be that a magic wand is waved and everything in delivery land will be returned to a time when everyone was happy. Anyone who thinks it was ever going too given the money which Royal Mail believe they can make from absorption and the current breaking of national agreements was obvious short sighted.

The way forward on deliveries will be something on bullying and harassment which is almost done. The second will be a total review of what is happening in delivery offices including a survey of staff and then resolving agreed issues. Royal Mail are in denial of the problems and therefore do not want to change issues. In addition lets be honest there are lots of problems in some offices which are not occurring in others. Some offices have adhered to the terms of the national agreement ie no 100 BSI , issues concerning absorption around an higher performance then what your office was agreed, the unagreed use of the 30 min flex and a whole host of issues.

So a full review of what is happening would be a good move forward. Then lets tackle the issues whether they are happening in a few offices or across the UK.

[feduppostie]

Dingo

in your opinion and I only ask as it is the MAIN ( i know it should not be) question in my office

what do you think the chances of an agreement and any money due from that agreement being paid before Xmas?

Like I said not my question

[Martin Walsh]

I think there will be a deal. The question then is will there be a postal policy briefing or will it go straight to an individual member ballot. It would be unlikely that the back pay would be paid prior to christmas , but whether other money could be paid I understand there have been discussions.

[Silly Sarah]

Royal Mail are in denial of the problems and therefore do not want to change issues.

If they do not know whats going on in their own company they are incompetent and should all resign. If they do know whats going on but choose to pretend otherwise, they are dishonest and incompetent and should all resign.

[feduppostie]

I think there will be a deal. The question then is will there be a postal policy briefing or will it go straight to an individual member ballot. It would be unlikely that the back pay would be paid prior to christmas , but whether other money could be paid I understand there have been discussions.

Many thanks for your thoughts

[The_Wax_Man]

...... Royal Mail are in denial of the problems and therefore do not want to change issues. ....

Which is one of the reasons on the table that the CWU called the ballot.

Which is one of the reasons members are so fed up

Which is one of the reasons why things will take a very long time to change

Which is one of the reasons the negotiations have been going on for so many extensions

Which is one of the reasons why I'm afraid to say that the CWU have bent over on and not forced the issue armed with the many members emails and the tragic stories we read so much about on this forum.

Which is one of the reasons why many members will leave CWU membership if pretty much nothing is agreed to.