They Are Under Pressure!!

[rowdogg]

tbh at least tman gives a different perspective rather than the usual rm slaggin, good to get a different point of view same with andy both making intelligent answers.......mostly :-)

[andy2007]

That's why I suggested that you should ask for training. So you could become a Reserve. And try to do something about the situation, rather than just complaining about it. And accusing other Posties of being inept.

Andy, you haven't added anything new, but I still have a couple of questions for you-
1 Why would I want or need training, and why would I want to be a reserve?
Ifg there's no-one else trained to do the job. Then there's no-one to replace an alleged inept operator. So there's nothing really, that the Manager can do, is there?
2 Why would my manager get involved with operators performance issues?
If your Manager is not the same one that deals with the operators. Then nothing (you didn't tell anyone that it was a different Manager. I'm not psychic!). But why isn't the operator's Manager doing something about it?
3 Your replies indicate that you perceive the only thing seperating "good" or "bad" operators, is training, and that "we're all the same ". Do you really believe that?

No. If you'd read the post properly. You'd have seen this: "Obviously, I'm not suggesting that the Postie you told us about, should be kicked off his Duty. But if, after retraining, and disciplinaries. He still makes far too many mistakes. Then there would be little choice, would there? "

[andy2007]

Heres thought -

RDC OPG - moves bag with letter A-Z into RSC labelled A-Z
In the Segs, yes. Which is why they must average a MINIMUM of 3 RSCs (average, just under 100 bags per RSC) per hour, over the entire shift.
There's far more than just Seggers at an RDC though.
DO postie - intimate knowledge of people, houses, streets, business, the back bone of the business.
Exactly. And you also have to brave all weathers, and I have a lot of respect for you, for doing that. So why the hostility?
Did you think that I was claiming to be superior to DO Posties in any way?
Remember: I'm one of the ones who defended DO Posties, from Tman's insulting comments!

RDC OPG - DSA has taken all the work
From the Segs, yes. Which is why the number of Posties in the Segs has been decimated.
However: We ship the DSA Mail all around the Country. So until the start of the Credit Crunch. We saw no significant drops in the amount of Mail we handled. We just didn't need to sort it. The Mech handlers, almost equal the Segging Staff these days. And if there are too many people on sick. We don't have enough Reserves to get the job done properly. At times, it's farcical!
DO postie - DSA dumps all the work on said postie to deliver.
Which is precicely the problem: There aren't enough Posties left, to do the job properly in the time allowed. Which leads to false accusations of inadiquacy from the Public. Among others. This is something that needs to be dealt with ASAP.
Instead of having a pipeline full of mail from RDC to MC to DO we have a situation of rdc toMC toDO
Actually, it's more like MC to RDC to MC (another part of the Country) to DO. Did you REALLY think that the MC's actually stored the 3rd Class, and Deferred Mail, until it's dispatch date. And shipped everything 'round the Country?
Why do you think that RDCs are part of the Logistics Section. The clue's in the title!

Ask any posties they deliver the same if not as much mail as before, ask a RDC OPG and they're like a bowling green! Thats why WCM can work in an RDC/MC but has zilcho chance in a DO!

Only if they work in the Segs, and don't pay attention to what happens elsewhere in the RDC!

And what makes you think that WCM works in an RDC?
Read this, before you believe RM propoganda: http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =WCM+NWRDC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tman]

1 Why would I want or need training, and why would I want to be a reserve?
Ifg there's no-one else trained to do the job. Then there's no-one to replace an alleged inept operator. So there's nothing really, that the Manager can do, is there?

Whether there's someone there trained and able to do the job or not, I don't see why you think I would either want to do the job, or even ask for training. And yes, there is something the manager can do; he can ensure his staff are trained AND able to do the job, that's why he's paid more than uniform grades.

2 Why would my manager get involved with operators performance issues?
If your Manager is not the same one that deals with the operators. Then nothing (you didn't tell anyone that it was a different Manager. I'm not psychic!).

No I didn't, but then I didn't think you'd assume I'd be under some junior ops manager either.

But why isn't the operator's Manager doing something about it?

Good question, but like you, I'm not psychic either.
Maybe because there's just too many under-performers, and he doesn't want the mountain of paperwork and the hassles from the union that would ensue?

No. If you'd read the post properly. You'd have seen this: "Obviously, I'm not suggesting that the Postie you told us about, should be kicked off his Duty. But if, after retraining, and disciplinaries. He still makes far too many mistakes. Then there would be little choice, would there? "

So ultimately, you DO suggest he'd be kicked off then?

[andy2007]

Only if he's genuinely incompetant, rather than being insufficiently trained. Just because someone's gone through a training course. It doesn't neccessarily mean that he/she, has fully understood it. That's why some people need extra training. Don't forget: Some people aren't familiar with modern technology, and can sometimes be overwhelmed by it. But that doesn't neccessarily mean that they can't do the job. Just that it's harder to train them adequately.

And as for kicking someone off a Duty. I'm not sure whether it could be done like that. But I do know of a couple of cases, where someone was. "Encouraged to change their Duty", because they weren't up to that particular Duty. Which quite frankly makes sense, if you think about it. Why keep getting into trouble, because you are genuinely incapable of doing the job correctly. When you can do something else, and avoid all the trouble.

But the important thing is: We must be very careful to distinguish between those who need retraining, those who's assessment is unfair/unrealistic, and those who simply "bit off more than they could chew", when they picked a new Duty! There are far more people being wrongly accused, than there are genuine cases.

[axeman]

come on now tman has neer perfect staff under him and has no need to disipline anyone .they all cut corners and regularly ignore h&s issues in fear of being removed (face fits syndrome) and no doubt are incredibly flexible

[Night Tonic]

Usual snidey pearls of wisdom from agent orange. Nothing new then. Seemed a good thread this - well it was.

[pickaname]

Usual snidey pearls of wisdom from agent orange. Nothing new then. Seemed a good thread this - well it was.

I think the main points of this topic are we can now prove both managers and postal workers are being put under huge unnecessary pressure from above.

The threatening tone of the letter at the beginning of the thread is evidence of this.

Time to close this thread mods?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Usual snidey pearls of wisdom from agent orange. Nothing new then. Seemed a good thread this - well it was.

I think the main points of this topic are we can now prove both managers and postal workers are being put under huge unnecessary pressure from above.

The threatening tone of the letter at the beginning of the thread is evidence of this.

Time to close this thread mods?

No but the ironic posts are quite funny.

[Tman]

How about the moronic ones............?

[baldrick]

I wouldn't call your posts moronic Tman.

[Tman]

That's OK then. I rather like yours too.............

[baldrick]

I wouldn't want people to get the wrong impression.

[BELIAL]

The tone of his letter clearly indicates that managers in office are not complying with his instructions and that overtime is still being claimed and paid.

Probably the most revealing bit and the most disturbing is that this letter is clearly designed to bully and intimidate DSMs who of course then bully DOMs who then bully our members in order to comply with the overall strategy.

The problem with all this is that it is unsustainable and thought up by people at the top who have never done a delivery.

The fact is that we have seen almost a 3rd of the workforce being lost since 2003 (40 thousand ) and whilst there may or may not have been a 10% reduction in traffic the realitiy is that the loss of jobs mean we are far more productive then we have ever been and if you consider the number of delivery points in the uk have increased by over 20 % in the last 5 years then all postal workers are now delivering to more delivery points then they have ever done.

It does make me laugh when i hear some who claim the union has not changed and has stopped modensation and automation. What a load of rubbish. When I first came into Royal Mail 35lbs was a delivery and anything above was overtime now most of our deliveries have more then 5 bags and some who have above 10.

There were over 140 mail centres now there are 65 , we had sunday collections then Royal Mail stopped them then they re started them and now once again have stopped them , we had 5 collections per day now in many places there is only one. We had trains including the travelling post office TPO ) now we dont , we had two deliverys now have one, we had double time on overtime after 12 hours and that went , we had saturday premium and lost that , we had PHGs and lost them , we never had any part timers until SFMB in 86 and now in some areas we now have over 50% part timers , we had cashless pay , we had traffic related bonus schemes and we had hardly any automation until the 80s now we have remote coding , flat machines , imps , walk sequencing and loads of other automation including PDAs ect.

Off course we have not change at all dont make me laugh. There cannot be any major public organisation who has changed as much as us.Oh and we lost over 40 000 jobs in the last decade.

However despite all these changes has this bussiness moved forward ? I really dont think so , instead it has been mis managed on a massive scale everything from Croziers disaster at agreeing the DSA access price which was to low 13.5 to buying foreign companies for millions then selling them for pennies a year later. oh and of course changing one of the leading brand name Royal Mail to Consigna .

Plus investing in machines which are not going to work to the standards they thought becuase the UK do deliver packets and flats whereas in Holland they dont.

Most senior managers like Crozier , Higson , Hadden and others have no knowledge that this bussines should be first and foremost a public service , afterall our lience is first to provide the USO. Instead management just want to rip out costs and services in order to drive up profits and then they can profit big fat bonus and then get head hunted for a different company. Whereas the majority of postal workers want to stay in this job till retirement therefore we want Royal Mail to continue to provide a service and good terms for workers.

Thats a cracker Cuts through all the worthless chaff