CWU support of Jeremy Corbyn

[Tman]

"fishtank"]In what way will England be financially exposed to the liabilities of an independent Scotland?

Directly (as in bank loans/grants/aid/bailouts etc) or indirectly (coping with the emigres escaping the SNP's pitiful grasp of domestic politics and finance, needing homes, educating etc etc)

If you have an issue with petty nationalism perhaps you should concentrate on problems closer to hand rather than fixating on independence vote in another country.

But it's not "another country" is it? See the money flowing northwards keeping the Scottish financial institutions and services alive? You think Westminster would do that if Scotland really was another country?
{Oh yeah, have a look on the BBC's Scotland section tonight, and read the comments re Wee Burney's latest declaration. Seems like a large majority of Scots aren't happy with her, her bollix talk or the SNP and it's track record, although I suppose you'll dismiss the comments as being from English trolls or whatever}

[fishtank]

You are on the one hand arguing that Scotland is a financial drain on the UK as part of the Union and at the same time arguing that it shouldn't be independent because it will be a financial drain on what's left of the UK.

Surely the rest of the UK would at least have more choice on whether it "bails out" Scotland if it was an independent country? That seems logical.

We have open borders at the moment which makes it easy for anyone fleeing SNP policy to wander over the border into nirvana so surely having a hard border would in theory at least make the rush of disaffected jocks easier to "control"? That seems logical too.

Be honest here Tman, your entire argument contradicts itself and is based on nothing more than a petty dislike of anything and anyone who doesn't agree with you.

[dvbuk55]

Well it will be a drain on our economy because we would have to rebuild Hadrians wall.

TBH fishtank, there hasn't been a lot of thought put into it. It's just an obsession of Sturgeons who has nothing else to say. Looked at realistically, NO EU membership, NO membership of NATO, NO Army, Navy or Air force, NO comfort blanket of £1,670+ per person from Westminster, NO Royal Mail, not enough oil revenue to sustain independence. In 2014 it was estimated at 11 billion and is now at 900 million.

[Tman]

Be honest here Tman, your entire argument contradicts itself and is based on nothing more than a petty dislike of anything and anyone who doesn't agree with you.

C'mon Fishy, play the ball not the man. You can do better than resorting to this, I reckon.
Anyone would think you have some deep-seated desire to see an independent Scotland at any cost ( or even as the poster above rather succinctly lays it out).
I seem to recall prior to the first ref you were shouting loud and long about "Scotland's" oil revenues and it's long-term ability to sustain the Scottish economy. That's taken a dump, so surely Plan B is now a necessity? There is a Plan B, isn't there?
Another little pie-in-the-sky plan from then was Green power generation, and that's gone belly-up too.
What are the eight million Scots going to live on? Exports of heather, Irn Bru and snow?
Scotland has been a financial basket-case ever since the Union, that's not going to change, so someone will have to bear the cost. Now, who will it be...

[fishtank]

Your ignorance of history ( try searching Scotland's diverse economy or even Scotland's industrial history ) is only matched by dvb's ignorance of geography ( someone explain to him where Hadrian's wall is ).

There is no point in debating "facts" with you Tman because you haven't provided any, saying over and over again that Scotland is an economic basketcase doesn't make it a fact.

I haven't gone into whether independence is a good or bad idea, simply that your thinly disguised xenophobia and bile is likely to encourage a positive vote and if the two of you think that Scotland is such a financial disaster for the UK it's difficult to see why you wouldn't both be supportive of the idea that you can finally be shot of the hated "sweaty socks".

At the end of the day it will be up to the Scots to decide and unlike Brexit I just hope the information available is more reliable and the level of debate is a bit above the half-assed, unsubstantiated shite you're providing.

[dvbuk55]

Tut Tut ft I'm well aware of the location of Hadrians wall it was in jest.

Like Brexit when the vote was taken there were cries of doom and gloom, financial disaster, markets crashing etc well none of it happened. However at the time nobody knew what the outcome would be nor indeed what that outcome will be now. I would hope that Mrs Krankie provides the people of Scotland a true reflection of what independence would mean. I'm sure the remainers will have a good case to put whereas there doesn't seem to be any upside but hey que sera sera. She isn't going to get a vote before brexit and she'll be out of the EU the same as the rest of us and what will poor Krankie do then.

[Gazza47]

Your ignorance of history ( try searching Scotland's diverse economy or even Scotland's industrial history ) is only matched by dvb's ignorance of geography ( someone explain to him where Hadrian's wall is ).

There is no point in debating "facts" with you Tman because you haven't provided any, saying over and over again that Scotland is an economic basketcase doesn't make it a fact.

I haven't gone into whether independence is a good or bad idea, simply that your thinly disguised xenophobia and bile is likely to encourage a positive vote and if the two of you think that Scotland is such a financial disaster for the UK it's difficult to see why you wouldn't both be supportive of the idea that you can finally be shot of the hated "sweaty socks".

At the end of the day it will be up to the Scots to decide and unlike Brexit I just hope the information available is more reliable and the level of debate is a bit above the half-assed, unsubstantiated shite you're providing.

In 2014 Scotland raised via tax and industry 53 billion however the bill that was covered from the U.K. Pot for Scotland was 65 billion and latest estimates that has increased dramatically, so best case scenario you leave and if you want the same lifestyle free university etc you need to find 12 billion. Let's not forget oil as dived so I would roughly estimate that figure would now be over 20 billion just to remain as you are now. Where do you think Scotland will get this from? I mean you cannot remain using Sterling and Europe would probably demand you using the euro ( if they let you back in ). Do you think this would be covered by European donations? Interested to know where pro leave campaigners think this money would come from.

[dvbuk55]

There would of course be job losses from the Clyde when the MOD pull the warship building, from Faslane when the subs pull out and many UK based companies not prepared to remain in an uncertain future with a country that has no credible position on the world stage, rather like Corbyn Mrs Krankie hardly inspires confidence with her strident speeches.. I really would like to know what it is Mrs Krankie hopes to achieve.

[Tman]

Not a lot of point in hitting me Fish. Scotland spends more than it makes, Scotland has always required subsidies of one sort or another, and currently Scottish financial institutions (RBS etc) are still loss-making.
Any of those points you really want to argue with?
{Xenophobia though? And I suppose that all the news on the media re Wee Jimmy is only for debate by those covered by BBC Scotland too?}

[dvbuk55]

Just seen Mrs Krankie blathering on about meetings in Brussels to secure Scotlands place in the EU? Scotland only has a place in the EU as part of the UK, she hasn't any right to be negotiating anything as Scotland is not a member of the EU and isn't a sovereign nation.

[simply_the_best]

Not a lot of point in hitting me Fish. Scotland spends more than it makes, Scotland has always required subsidies of one sort or another, and currently Scottish financial institutions (RBS etc) are still loss-making.
Any of those points you really want to argue with?
{Xenophobia though? And I suppose that all the news on the media re Wee Jimmy is only for debate by those covered by BBC Scotland too?}

I can't believe we might have to go through all this s**t again.

I know of plenty of guys that voted Remain that are staunch Unionists and would never vote for separation, She's hijacked their vote.

Polls out show that nearly a third of Nats voted leave.

Personally I hope May tells Nippy to do one, we've had our once in a generation vote as outlined in the Edinburgh agreement signed by Salmond and Sturgeon. What's to say the minute they lose another one they'll be agitating for a third the day after the result, just like 2014, Brexit is a smokescreen. I fuukin despise Scottish Nats.

[fishtank]

You guys do realise what the topic of this thread is don't you?
Saying that Corbyn's position on Scottish independence is much the same as his position on anything, muddled and incomprehensible.

[jetblack]

1) After having "gamed" the whole Brexit referendum, the SNP and Sturgeon push for ref2 - of course they do, its their whole raison d'etre.

2) Come ref2 its again a no vote. Sturgeon is gone, and the SNP are yesterdays news.

3) Kezia is challenged as leader of Scottish Labour - because, frankly, she's shite. Scotland is inherently (potentially) a socialist nation which is being let down badly by Kezia the careerist who doesn't really know why she is in the game at all. Give it up Kezia - you are dead in the water.

4) a charismatic socialist leader for Scotland comes to the fore. A new optimism is born - and a renaissance of socialism rides a wave both north and south of the border.

5) May calls a general election in 2020 - leaving it to the last moment so as to have proven her worth, as opposed to riding on Camerons coat tails/mandate. It backfires - Brexit negotiations show that she doesn't really have much worth.

6) the parliament is hung - this time the Lib Dems go with Labour. A government is formed.

[fishtank]

Jet, I think you should reduce the medication mate.

[Tman]

The first three aren't beyond fantasy, number five quite likely,but the rest....
Lib dems....